[coral lord]

Remember Mayan got that great live release on the KC Yours single at least. I think half of the songs on that album lost a lot of energy that made them great, but Cows is a really solid listen. It drags towards the end with Taken Boy, Our Little Chapter, and Mayan. But the first half (or everything through KC) is really nice. Saturdays will always be one of my favorite songs by him.

[Stan]

Just a fan theory but Mothlight to Cows arguably flubbed harder than ATP to Greap.

What's The Goodside is a ripper, though, well better than me and the bubbbbbbloy.

[Slippi's Applesauce]

Tangerine Reef is all right. I definitely prefer it with the visuals. Hair Cutter and Palythoa are probably my favorites, love the shout out to Orlando in the latter song. Hip Sponge could have been super sick.

Cows is one of my absolute favorite solo records. I only listed to the boots a handful of times, and the only one that stuck out to me was Disc One iirc, so the record was a huge surprise. I'll echo some other sentiments I've heard that it actually feels like the same guy who wrote Spirit, matured. I hadn't listened to it in a minute though, and honestly it was noisier than I remembered. Those soul-piercing noises that open Nostalgia in Lemonade are wild. I feel like it's a bit less of a safe record than a lot of people give it credit for. Not that it's super out there or anything, but still. Also I won't stand for the Our Little Chapter or Remember Mayan slander. Both those songs came out perfect.

Also also agreed about Homies, should've been part of last week. Doesn't matter too much lol

[nothingmaster]

I like Cows a lot. A really chilled out listen, good songs. I enjoy the early intense performances a lot too but I like that he went for a spacier, softer approach in the studio. Studio Midnight is really pretty.

[coral lord]

Petition to add Tickley Feather as extra credit for next week

[foxtrot]

Jam wrote:

I’ve been pretty burnt out the past several months so I feel bad I haven’t been able to contribute too much in the way of thoughtful reflection here, but I have really appreciated this thread and all of the wonderful thoughts shared. Huge shoutout to Foxtrot for their hard work!

Not hard at all. I have had so much fun doing this and have been blown away by all the enthusiasm. It has been awesome. Love reading everyone's thoughts. It's been one of the best little listening projects I've ever given myself.

Jam wrote:

Adding a shout this week for Tipped in Hugs / Dog Says Goodbye, which are both wonderful tracks but I can understand their omission from Cows. Tipped in Hugs sounds like a possible leftover from Eucalyptus but I’m glad it got the treatment that it did. The spacey piano on Dog Says Goodbye sounds like a restrained Vince Guaraldi fogscape (which fits the lyrics perfectly). A little Seal Eyeing? Talked myself into wanting them on Cows. Or any streaming service other than Bandcamp (don’t worry, I paid). That would be nice.

This will come up again in my responses to a few other posts but I've never listened to any Cows era Avey boots. The only thing I've heard is the live KC EP stuff. No demoitis here. I bloody love Cows. Clearly need to go back and check out some boots from the era though!

Hellomark wrote:

Agree about Tipped in Hugs, so much to love about that song. Dog Says Goodbye always felt kind of forgettable to me though, I should probably revisit it.
The whole Cows/Birds era of Aveys music is a weird one to me, maybe some of the most intense demoitis I've had with any AC stuff. The only song that I feel improved from the live versions is What's the Goodside, which is easily one of the best Avey solo tunes. Nothing else on the album really matches the feeling of that song imo, even though there are a few other very good moments here and there.
I remember feeling the same way about Laughing Hieroglyphic when I first heard Down There, but the rest of the songs quickly grew on me and I came to appreciate the entire album. Cows hasn't had the same journey unfortunately. I will say the sound of the album is very interesting as a snapshot of where Aveys songwriting has been recently, the sort of laidback nature of it definitely foreshadows the Time Skiffs stuff.

See above. Cows is stunning for me. Like psychedelic dub folk.

bullseye wrote:

Cows on Hourglass Pond:
I do wish it were more like the Mothlight show. Actually, I wouldn't be mad if Cows tracklist were exactly the set of songs from the Mothlight show. Speaking of which, its great that avey released such a fine recording of the show on bandcamp. Listening back to these high energy versions of Sew Happy and Taken Boy, its a kind of a shame that these songs were toned down so much on Cows. It could easily have been heavy on the dance beats and would have shined with the production approach found on Homies or Buoys. Also, Betty needs a Doctor slaps. I can see that it wasn't further developed, seeing how all the other songs were molded into something different. That's maybe why the studio version of Uncle Donut sticks out as a very weird song to me. It stayed relatively true to the mood of the live version, but sounds unlike any other studio recording from this era, the closest thing is maybe Enjoy the Change.

Will definitely head to bandcamp and give the Mothlight show a listen.

dio wrote:

Spoiler: show

Really seems like Homies would be in this set, I remember putting it on after night 2 of the Music Box shows after the show. It's getting wrong era'd like PP did >,>

This era is sick though. Listened to a lot of this yesterday, including the p4k recording of a Sung Tong show and it seems like this is the era where they officially got good at wearing all their hats at virtually the same time.

Coming off PW and they chose to do something like TR that is almost the polar opposite. Coming off MotW to just completely and literally homage-ing the ST style that MotW is in the lineage of (sort of, but w/ geo instead of panda). Leaning into TR and Music Box which are lower-key projects by design and doesn't require Noah.

Panda meanwhile is working on 2 sets of music at once and releasing them differently (Homes/Buoys)

this feels like pay-off for liking AC so long, suddenly in a single year's time you might have seen up to 4 different live versions of them (PW w/ Jeremy raves, ST throwback shows, TR experimental visual-album shows AND/OR the Music Box sets) each in a totally different "mode" not to mention the solo stuff 3 of them were doing around then (all but Deakin I guess)

good times.... TR specifically has grown a lot on me. Been listening a lot in the past month because it still felt like a blindspot for me. When watched with the gorgeous visuals it does hit harder and makes me think its meant to be watched, but the songs do stand on their own despite this and despite Avey's chilled out sounds-like-he's-sitting-down vocal delivery. I like the un-showy approach. It is sci-fi/dystopia style music at its best and the synth work and all the glrious geo-ness is really something. One of their darker albums too, in a variety of ways, and they seem in a similar place as Danse/ark type era and yet it doesn't sound much like those era's either. It's own weird thing, with a very specific tone.

Cows I have the benefit of never hearing the Mothlight. And yet I still have a little demitis on Mayan. He slightly changed the chorus melody and general vibe is pretty different. This is Avey's version of Greaper mass demoitis but I MOSTLY don't have it.

Good stuff here, it seems like he's basically writing stuff in the vein of Slasher material but with pretty clean production and its a little more serious, though not quite Eucalyptus style serious maybe. Its a great zone to hear Dave in.

Conference is our first Dave EP ever and while it doesn't fascinate me like Homies did/does, it is definitely a gr8 bonus to Ponds in the way most of their era-specific EPs are. And just different from Pond enough to validate itself.

Sorry Geo, I'm an asshole and didn't check your tape yet. When I saw solo Panda in Austin around then I either missed you/didn't see merch table or else you didn't play?? can't remember

Music Box I might be out of words about now. Lucky enough to see both shows that weekend cuz I lived in Nola at the time. First show was a mostly bad experience cuz I took a bad amount of acid and fixated on crowd being I THINK too loud (maybe they were normal and I was tripping?). 2nd night was glorious though and I wouldn't have gone again if I hadn't not felt right about first night.

Anyway, glad half of that set has been released and the tracks then were the beginning of the current era, even if it means its a 4 year era soon

Also their ST shows were great and really impressive and somehow seemed appropriate even tho I know they AND we at some point didnt think they'd do anything like this.

Also Homies vinyl owns, Sunset and Sheperds Tone are so crazy good to me. And the Buoys live shows from around then rock too.

bottom line: SUCH a diverse time for the band.

Love reading your reflections on this era dio!

I needed to beef up the final week a bit and Homies seemed like the best fit for the final week. Everything else here seems to work together. Sorry! Panda copped it twice

I agree that the way they have jumped around during this period is so much fun. Little projects and tasters of so many of their different styles. Great time to be a fan.

TR has grown on me massively over the last year or so. So glad they made it and chose to release audio only, thereby making it basically an official album. It is such a unique and fascinating project.

Like I mentioned, never heard Mothlight - almost thinking I'm lucky at this point as Cows is really special for me!

Looks like heaps of us haven't heard the Geo thing yet. Looking forward to giving it a focussed listen tonight.

You're a brave man taking acid at shows. I can't do it. Hallucinogens are always a pretty intimate type thing for me. No large crowds etc!

Slippi's Applesauce wrote:

Tangerine Reef is all right. I definitely prefer it with the visuals. Hair Cutter and Palythoa are probably my favorites, love the shout out to Orlando in the latter song. Hip Sponge could have been super sick.

I've listened more without visuals than with. I love the visuals but it was totally stands on its own for me.

Slippi's Applesauce wrote:

Cows is one of my absolute favorite solo records. I only listed to the boots a handful of times, and the only one that stuck out to me was Disc One iirc, so the record was a huge surprise. I'll echo some other sentiments I've heard that it actually feels like the same guy who wrote Spirit, matured. I hadn't listened to it in a minute though, and honestly it was noisier than I remembered. Those soul-piercing noises that open Nostalgia in Lemonade are wild. I feel like it's a bit less of a safe record than a lot of people give it credit for. Not that it's super out there or anything, but still. Also I won't stand for the Our Little Chapter or Remember Mayan slander. Both those songs came out perfect.

Yes! Some serious love for Cows! I feel like its actually quite new for Dave in a heap of ways. And the songs are fucking solid!

Slippi's Applesauce wrote:

Also also agreed about Homies, should've been part of last week. Doesn't matter too much lol

Yeh, had to beef up the final week with something!

nothingmaster wrote:

I like Cows a lot. A really chilled out listen, good songs. I enjoy the early intense performances a lot too but I like that he went for a spacier, softer approach in the studio. Studio Midnight is really pretty.

Like I said, its like psychedelic dub folk. Totally fresh, awesome sound.

coral lord wrote:

Petition to add Tickley Feather as extra credit for next week

Officially added as a bonus!



Some thoughts on a couple of this week’s releases:

Tangerine Reef:

Because it's set to images of coral I had always tried to listen to this on hot, sunny days when the big blue sea springs to mind. But actually, this wasn't the ideal setting for me to get into this album at all.

It clicked for me when I played it on a gloomy, rainy morning. Everything was dull and grey. And this album was perfect. Its stark textures and slightly unsettling dissonance hit different.

Where AC's sounds usually evoke a whole spectrum of colour, for me, Tangerine Reef is a dull grey blue. Not the sparkling surface of the ocean in the end, but the murky depths lying beneath. A kind of desolate, primordial soup. A really unique thing for them.

Which should have been obvious to me from the start really.

Cows:

Where Eucalyptus and TR focused more on texture and ambiance, Cows was a real return to a more melodic and beat driven style for Avey. I got excited about it immediately. Have loved it from the start.

The songs feel like they take the instrumental palette of 'Eucalyptus' and 'Meeting of the Waters' but add a gently pulsating, dubby atmosphere.Gurgling samples and electronics, pastoral acoustic guitar, deceptively simple and propulsive rhythms, thick bass plus Avey's always amazing voice. Earthly and heavenly at the same time.

The way his songs float along in a constant state of gentle metamorphosis on Cows gives the feeling of gliding over expansive landscapes, marveling at both the scenery below and the vastness above. Both terrestrial and extra-terrestrial at the same time. It is gorgeous.

Love his lyrics on this one too. Songs about a range of existential topics: confronting middle-age and the passage of time, the intricacies of human connection, technology and human 'progress', the inherent transience in everything. That sense of transience pervades the entire album.

What Dave really nails here is the way he provides just enough structure, melody and humanity to ground things and brings us along for the journey. Listening to Cows feels like riding a horse across boundless plains at night. Then you look down and realise the horse is in the sky. How can you not love it?!

Conference:

This one always brings to mind some really clear visuals/narrative for me:

Midnight Special is a muggy, late night walk along a river bank. Dense, muddy waters disturbed by cold raindrops. Reflections distorted and warped by the ripples.

Red Light Water Show is like rising above the river. Hovering just above the water. Gliding through the thick night air. The river’s mysterious depths flying by underneath you.

Disc One is landing in an open field. Feet tumbling in circles as you desperately try to wipe the speed off and slow down. The long dry grass swaying golden in the grey night. Shadows of steeds flitting by in your peripherals.

Enjoy The Change is stepping over the fence, out of the field and into the forest. Insects buzzing and beasts calling. Demons in your ears. Branches scratching at your shoulders and bushes clawing at your legs. Scrambling through ever more dense and thorny foliage before finally stumbling free.

Then Uncle Donut is like running, full pelt back towards the river. Glancing behind to check you’re not being followed. Careening over the fence, the field and back along that river bank. Realizing you are free. Elated yet bruised and beaten. Grazed legs, beating heart, thick sweat. Breath struggling to return to normal as you shuffle to a halt.

Fuck yes. Love this EP. Right up there in the 'accompanying EPs' stakes: alongside Prospect, Water Curses, FBK etc.

[foxtrot]

Live In The Land Of The Sky:

The only thing on this schedule other than Blasted that I have never heard before. Unlike that album I’ll definitely be coming back to this little gem.

Zoombloom is really cool. Much more beauty and melody than I expected. It reminds a little of Hiroshi Yoshimura meets Steve Roach. Certainly less abrasive and wild than I thought Geo solo might be. Some lovely watery looping patterns and lots of cool sounds oscillating around them. I dig how it slowly evolves into something more spacey and mechanical as it goes on. 6 mins in and I’m already wishing this got a much wider release.

White Sands is a trippy dreamscape of some Indian/East Asian scene. Traditional eastern folk sounds tumbling around a kaleidoscope. It’s strangely alluring and slightly unsettling at the same time. It’s like the venom from a Snake Charmer’s Cobra sending you into a kind of psychotic fever dream as you drift in and out of consciousness. Another absolute winner.

Half Southern is an unusual one. Very 70s desolate spacey prog feel. Some cool sounds thrown in there but ultimately didn’t captivate like the first two tracks on first listen.

Somersaults opens with some classic Geo sound manipulation. Sounds warped and contorted in fascinating ways. The opening minutes of this track are probably what I expected the whole thing to sound like going in. Slightly abrasive and disorienting at first. When it starts to glitch a bit it actually, counter intuitively, starts to take shape a little more clearly in my ears. Really enjoy the chopped up brushes drums and the high skittering synth bits that start flitting about. This track does a great job of slowly sharpening its focus. Becoming clearer and more crystallised as it progresses. Parts of this remind me of FourTet in his Rounds days. Maybe it’s the brushes drums and folky feel despite all the cutting and pasting. The last couple of minutes feel like they could be a TS outro if AC were a Scottish band.

This is well worth people’s attention. I’d bloody love a proper Geo solo album one day.

[curleyswirley]

That KC Yours EP is really smart, love the live versions

[jordanrandall]

Tangerine Reef:

Might be biased as I had an amazing experience setting up the Canadian premiere at our independent theater "The Grand Gerrard" (RIP) but golly gee I love this record.

There's some passive aggressive misery in Ontario during the winter months and this album fits that mood entirely. I remember walking downtown near Union Station and seeing these mobs of people going to and from places, be it work or just out shopping and it felt like watching schools of fish moving in unison but with a more sinister vibe since it was people (purveyors of the destruction of nature) trapped in a self made rat race. I was listening to "coral understanding" funny enough when this grim understanding hit me.

"Buxom, your sweater's/strata's high" second time around hits me hard every time.

I heard the TR boots a few months earlier and was singing Hip Sponge non stop when I went on a trip to Orlando. Drove my fiance insane.

The instrumental pieces on this thing are massive. Especially in a movie theatre. My god. If you somehow get a chance, play this in a movie theatre and sit right in the center.

I fully consider TR as an album on its own (and in terms of their "studio" discography). I listen to it all the time.

Cows on Hourglass Pond:

Hot take here. Goodside and Saturdays are my least favorite tracks. I definitely went hard on the boots, loved how Mayan turned out and while Sew Happy lost something in its metamorphosis I think it gained something entirely new in HORS_ which I like even more. KC is so weird to me because it sounds like a Deerhunter song at times (as does Tipped in Hugs) but it's such an AC song lol. Our Little Chapter has become my new favorite with time, perhaps because I didn't wear it out like some of the others early on. But it almost brings me to tears when I reflect on the line "to think about life without you and me... our little chapter." This came out just a while after my aunt passed away and really affected me in terms of looking at our relationship with others as "chapters" in our own stories.

Music Box:

I asked Deakin if they'd release this on vinyl. He said "probably not." This is the live album that needs to be on wax. Ballet Slippers was a mega let down (despite Banshee being soul crushing and a few other golden moments) it should have been a compilation of the MPP songs they played while touring SJ before their evolution (like OG Taste, cmon now!). Paper Forehead is cool but functions mainly as an intro track. Spider is super haunting. What's on the road, the path and tri kid are perfect. Being involved in film I have some issues with the live video component of this release with bad syncing and using clips from other songs/moments from the set... at one point they throw in footage with Deak on the center stage piano (I think it might have been from Defeat). Why do they insist on making live videos "trippy" with stuff like the mirroring effects... reminds me of the CHz live DVD that has shit all overlayed on top of the video.... the music is "trippy" enough... there's really no need. Guys from AC... if you're reading this... please... PLEASE... consider releasing this as a live vinyl LP once all the other tracks have come out on Time Skiffs 2.

[BORCHENKO??]

You set up Tangerine Reef at that theatre??? Why wasn't I informed of this? I live within walking distance of it! Rip indeed, now whenever I walk by I see a bunch of old men bbqing inside. At least they're having fun

[blindmowing]

Relative to AC's World, Cows on Hourglass Pond is Avey's Pop Crossover moment.

Before that, all of his albums were introverted, murky, lo-fi, (Down There, Eucalyptus) or produced with inaccessible mixing/production choices (Spirit, Pullhair, Slasher Flicks). By comparison, these songs are sharp, clear, bright, and POP.

The way the bass comes in on "What's the Goodside" is comparable to a massive beat drop in our world. If this album was debuted in a stadium full of AC fans, everyone would've gone wild. And then, in the back half of that song when it builds with acoustic guitar and that chorus... that's an arena hit, man!!!

The rest of the album follows suit as a pretty forward-facing, bold psych (pop as much as folk) album.

[awesome]

(late to motw but......) was listening to man of oil last night and thought it'd be a dope song for them to do live on their tour, i think it could be reworked into the new vibe super well and really shine

[foxtrot]

jordanrandall wrote:

Tangerine Reef:

Might be biased as I had an amazing experience setting up the Canadian premiere at our independent theater "The Grand Gerrard" (RIP) but golly gee I love this record.

This is very cool.

jordanrandall wrote:

There's some passive aggressive misery in Ontario during the winter months and this album fits that mood entirely. I remember walking downtown near Union Station and seeing these mobs of people going to and from places, be it work or just out shopping and it felt like watching schools of fish moving in unison but with a more sinister vibe since it was people (purveyors of the destruction of nature) trapped in a self made rat race. I was listening to "coral understanding" funny enough when this grim understanding hit me.

Yes. Can totally see this. Great perspective/idea about this record.

jordanrandall wrote:

Hot take here. Goodside and Saturdays are my least favorite tracks.

Definitely a hot take. These two tracks are amazing.

jordanrandall wrote:

I definitely went hard on the boots, loved how Mayan turned out and while Sew Happy lost something in its metamorphosis I think it gained something entirely new in HORS_ which I like even more. KC is so weird to me because it sounds like a Deerhunter song at times (as does Tipped in Hugs) but it's such an AC song lol. Our Little Chapter has become my new favorite with time, perhaps because I didn't wear it out like some of the others early on. But it almost brings me to tears when I reflect on the line "to think about life without you and me... our little chapter." This came out just a while after my aunt passed away and really affected me in terms of looking at our relationship with others as "chapters" in our own stories.

I listened to Mothlight and its great. Happy though that I knew the album first. Makes this a great bonus rather than an instance of demoitis. Agree that Our Little Chapter is such a sad and pretty song.

blindmowing wrote:

Relative to AC's World, Cows on Hourglass Pond is Avey's Pop Crossover moment.

Before that, all of his albums were introverted, murky, lo-fi, (Down There, Eucalyptus) or produced with inaccessible mixing/production choices (Spirit, Pullhair, Slasher Flicks). By comparison, these songs are sharp, clear, bright, and POP.

I feel like Slasher is much more immediate and poppy but otherwise see what you're saying re the clarity of the mix.

awesome wrote:

(late to motw but......) was listening to man of oil last night and thought it'd be a dope song for them to do live on their tour, i think it could be reworked into the new vibe super well and really shine

Could definitely work a treat in Skiffs mode!

[roopn]

Sorry to quote myself, but since some discussion occurred in the general thread a little while back I'm reposting my thoughts on Tangerine Reef, plus dio's post that got me thinking about it in the first place.

roopn wrote:

dio wrote:

Hitting up Tangerine Reef.... still a mysterious album to me which is a feat in itself...

but also wondering about how they chose to do a full audio-visual release for this compared to Music Box.... they were happening very closely to one another... almost like TR was warm-up for Music Box. Panda-less jam/improvy mode.

like I guess now we just need a part 2 of the Music Box shows for that to be complete but like... I think most would agree the musical material is a little more compelling than TR

Maybe thats it tho, like some was too good to capture in a primordial live state... TR puzzles the fuck out of me. I like it pretty good, but I feel like I should like it way more, on paper. Still, it and MotW was a good vibe-reset for the band post PW

I think It's tantamount to the brief that it's a challenging listen. Tangerine Reef is primordial mood music designed to be presented alongside the imagery of the coral life. Had they just made a pleasant 45 minute ambient album it wouldn't have sufficiently expressed an understanding of the weird, essentially alien life that exists in the depths. It's still of our world so there are songish elements to the music, but they are primitive and sometimes blurry - I think of the vocals in particular. Avey sings a lot on this album, but the vocals are fragile, not too upfront and effects are minimal. The lyrics are weird and random, dreamlike, almost generative. He's not singing to the audience, he's just singing. The coral does not exist for us, it just exists. We are in the lucky position of quiet witnesses

I want to be clear, this was kind of an epiphany I had as I was writing it. I wasn't listening to TR at the time and hadn't previously pieced together much of an understanding of what's going on with the album. Whenever I saw people describe the music as 'primordial' in the past, the cynical part of my brain was thinking this was just a friendly way to say it sounds unfinished. Suddenly now it kinda snapped into focus, and on subsequent listens I happily discovered that my new analysis for the most part rang true. It also helped me vibe with the more challenging elements of the album and enjoy it as a much more relaxing listening experience. It's become a favourite to listen to while gaming, too.

I'm sorry I'm talking more about myself than the music here, I hope this wasn't too indulgent.

[foxtrot]

I love this roopn. Think I said so in the thread at the time. You've perfectly summed up TR's strange appeal. It inhabits a genuinely unique space. This bit:

roopn wrote:

He's not singing to the audience, he's just singing. The coral does not exist for us, it just exists. We are in the lucky position of quiet witnesses

is just brilliant.

Not too indulgent at all man. Great stuff.

I said something about TR being all about being in this kind of limbo state - marvelling at the coral’s bizarre beauty while simultaneously grieving its loss. Your idea of us being quiet witnesses to this ancient thing works really well with my ideas about the album. So yeh, love it.


Alright, Music Box thoughts from me:

It makes sense that this release only includes tracks not already slated for Time Skiffs 2. As desperate as I am to get a high quality version of Defeat it'll be even sweeter hearing it in its final form on Skiffs 2.

What we do have here is a really interesting collection of music that ends up feeling like its own distinct thing. The primitive, germinating seeds of the Time Skiffs era growing out of the compost of TR.

Paper Forehead is full of awesome ambience. Love the slow, pan-global stomp it has. Thumping and crawling along like a kind of sinister forest creature. They do a great job of incorporating a bunch of the Music Box's sound making features here.

A Spider Bit My Lady sounds a lot like Tangerine Reef. Minimal and mournful, less focus on melody and more on the atmosphere: fervid and disquieting. Geo, Deakin and the supporting musicians creating an unstable bed for Avey. It's super intense and totally absorbing.

What’s On The Road? is a great taster for some of the fantastic contributions Deakin has made to this era of the band. I was sorry to see it pop up in this release: basically means it is written off any upcoming studio releases. I love the swirling Indian/Asian folk sounds and Josh's commanding vocal. His voice is incredible when he lets it soar like this. The vocal effects add to the psychedelic feel but never take away from the power of the performance. This and Defeat really show off the amazing contributions of the supporting musicians (Helen, Aurora and Marion) too. Love Geo's little metal rod bit. Adds to the whole 'spiritual chant' feel of this track. Incredible piece of music.

Who Knows? seems a bit underrated/forgotten by a lot of people. That main synth melody that Avey plays coupled with Deakin's up and down guitar is just utterly devastating. So incredibly beautiful. Avey at his most tender and heartfelt. This song is so simple but so gorgeous. It feels deeply-rooted yet celestial. I think its spectacular stuff.

Early Prester John is still super cool but definitely grew into something much bigger and better I think. The awkward synth part is fun to try and catch hold of and the 'downtown' melody/harmony is fantastic. It works beautifully after Who Knows? with its simple, delicate arrangement and sense of space.

Tri Kid seems like the odd one out here. Much like Peanut Butter Hearts - which didn't even make the cut (gone forever?). As it is sequenced here it works a little like Uncle Donut - a more wild and higher energy track closing out what was a passage of predominantly much more atmospheric stuff. Its a fun song. It certainly feels like a release after the moody intensity of the rest of the tracks.

So glad we got this. It has been a real treat and worked wonderfully in the lead up to Skiffs.

[roopn]

foxtrot wrote:

I said something about TR being all about being in this kind of limbo state - marvelling at the coral’s bizarre beauty while simultaneously grieving its loss. Your idea of us being quiet witnesses to this ancient thing works really well with my ideas about the album. So yeh, love it.

Yeah, love this take, thanks foxtrot. That combination of grief and splendour is surely what Tangerine Reef is all about at its core

[wilandhugs]

Finally got around to relistening to TR-- AC has always done such a phenomenal job at being atmospheric in their music, and I always thought that the lack of immediate atmosphere on PW was quite jarring. Then bam-- we get this beast which is all flub, no bones. I've come around to it for liking it for what it is similarly. PW has emotional high points due to the sheer power and nostalgia it exudes, and TR drips some kind of distant dream nostalgia in the world it creates. Instead of enjoying it for the usual reasons to enjoy AC, I really enjoy it for how incredibly enveloping it is. Sort of reminds me of Visiting Friends if it was full length.

[nothingmaster]

I agree that Who Knows? is one of their most perfect compositions. Intensely spellbinding. The tense but still energy in the video is palpable. It's so incredibly barebones and each member's respective part is so quintessentially them. You got Avey's haunting yet whimsical chords carrying the song with cryptic lyrics that feel incredibly meaningful somehow. You've got a CLASSIC Deakin guitar part that just perfectly shapes the song (a la Rev Green). His line sounds like being on the verge of an intense revelation of some kind. Then Geo literally just stands for half the song until he comes in with the signature Geo synth bass. Perfectly filtered, vibrating the strings of your soul.

[roopn]

Would like to echo above thoughts on the Music Box release, too

I think it's stronger for its omissions. Listening to the boot of night 1, it's pretty clear how fresh a lot of these tunes are, and for me we're better off with those other songs hitting the world fully formed.
I agree that Trikid sticks out with it's playful kind of cows style, comes off pretty strange next to all the big brooding songs prior to it. Kinda works as an afterparty vibe I guess? But it's the only part of the set I don't really love. I'd have preferred to have Sundown with Cecil instead but hey, maybe Cecil will resurface elsewhere (like I think PB Hearts will)?

Nothingmaster and Foxtrot, you're totally right about Who Knows/Prester John. Celestial, simple, grounded yet soaring. This is the seed of the medieval idea Avey has been playing with on the newer AC stuff. I like what Prester John became, but the climax of this version is just otherworldly. Those high harmonies are the best, and the melody is massive, kind of tortured but satisfying all the same.

Spider bit my Lady is my highlight, towering over everything else. Avey giving it all, atmosphere all-encompassing. Peak AC moment, and the moment is sustained for like 7 minutes. 12 if you include paper forehead which is perfect in itself imo, and sets the scene perfectly for spider.

[IkoOvo]

front to back adore the music box vid, who knows / prestor john is top tier ac imo

[foxtrot]

IkoOvo wrote:

front to back adore the music box vid, who knows / prestor john is top tier ac imo

Fuck yes. Giving it another run rn and it has been really well put together. I know there are some minor editing issues and the effects aren’t needed but musically it works so fucking well.

My only fault musically is, like roopn and I have previously mentioned, that TriKid feels a little clunky at the end. Love the song though. Totally agree that Cecil would have worked really well.

[Fovrodi]

"An obsession with the past is a dead fly"

fight the real enemy

[bullseye]

Tangerine Reef:
I'm a huge fan of Tangerine Dream (especially their records from the 70s) and I was beyond psyched when they announced the visual album and the first bootleg popped up on here. This thing is a beautiful trip, the visuals are stunning, the music feels like its pulling the listener deeper into the murky depths with each song, or rather with each listen. It takes a few listens to reveal it's beauty. Listening to it feels like diving, or how I imagine what it must feel like to be weightless in space. I also completely agree with this:

roopn wrote:

He's not singing to the audience, he's just singing. The coral does not exist for us, it just exists. We are in the lucky position of quiet witnesses

I took a walk yesterday listening to the album and was thinking to write something like that on here, about the way avey sings on TR, but couldn't have worded it any better than you, roopn. I have absolutely no idea what avey is singing about 90% of the time, but that's a good thing. The few moments where the lyrics really stick out are really powerful though.The "Don't you see the truth is right in front of you?" in Coral Understanding sounds so desperate, it's heartwrenching. I love the way they integrate environmental messages in their music and it feels like it's coming from their hearts.

On no other AC record are the synth sounds as inventive as on TR, imho. The sound design is just on point. Everything sounds like it's alive, but it's living in slow motion.
The only thing I do not like on TR is the closer. Best of Times (Worst of all) doesn't do anything for me aside from the nice visuals. But I wish the album would just end on the very high note that is Palythoa. At least they were honest enough to specify in the song title that it's indeed the worst of all the songs on here, lol.

Live at the Music Box:
I stayed away from the boots for this as much as I could throughout these last years, ever since I knew that the whole thing was filmed. I'm also glad that they only released part of the show in order not to spoil defeat and the other tracks that have been reworked. I do hope the remaining part of the show will be released at some point though.
Everything up to the Prester John part actually sounds like a natural progression from TR and it has been really nice to listen to both releases back to back. Spider bit my Lady and Who knows are just perfect and I cannot imagine them to have turned out any better, if they had decided to take these songs into the studio. Trikid on the other hand feels a bit off. I can't quite point out what exactly is wrong with it, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks it sounds a bit clunky. I would have loved to see it get reworked in their current live sets, maybe with Panda and Deaks doing some hocketing on the "Try (try) Kid (kid)" part, just to rile up some of the PW haters
Still nice to have it as it is, though. Even if it ends the Music Box Set on a weird note. Finger crossed for Sundown with Cecil.

Edit: I actually like the wacky visual effects. The parts where it's not lip-synced correctly feels a bit amateurish tbh.

[Slippi's Applesauce]

Birds: this pretty anxious release came out at the perfect time, mere months before our world was launched into great turmoil. though i've cooled on it a bit, i must have listened to this 50+ times when it came out. still a great and dark EP. Disc One is a nice bright spot in the middle of devastating tracks like Enjoy the Change

Music Box: cool to have. can't wait for the rest. spider bit my lady and who knows are sick.
trikid might be one of my all time least favorite AC tracks in this form. can't stand it at all.

[foxtrot]

This Geo cassette is fucking stunning and deserves much more of our attention

[roopn]

Cows is a weird one. Avey's first two solo albums have such distinct moods/atmospheres built into the production style *. But with Cows, it sounds good, but it doesn't really evoke much or have a particularly strong marriage to the songwriting. Admittedly I am a victim of demoitis with these songs, more in relation to the 2017 tour shows than the Mothlight. I'm not surprised the album doesn't sound like the mothlight show, that was so singular - but the boots from the 2017 tour had such a distinct mood that obviously wasn't what he ended up going for on the album. Plus, I still find myself thrown by lyric changes in saturdays, lemonade, mayan. On top of all that, KC Yours just doesn't land for me. Jetsons-style cautionary sci-fi tale in the middle of otherwise grounded, personal songs? The drum loop is like skateboarding down a staircase, and the coda is tiresome before its first repeat.
Apologies to come off so negative. Most songs on Cows are great, but for me they just didn't have the staying power it seemed like they would leading up to the release.

Birds - a funny little addendum to the era. Very anxious like slippi said.
Conference: Midnight special is great. Disc One and Red Light Water Show are good but almost sound unfinished to me? Like, they could've been nudged just that little further. The former needs a little darkness, the latter needs to be looser.
Disguise: Enjoy the Change is a rare occasion where the vocal effect is too much for me. It's quite a big song with a lot happening in it, then that vocal effect on top of it all makes this song feel impenetrable. Also it has that pumping kick drum that bullseye mentioned last page re the Mayan. This was a habit avey was in at the time that never worked for me.
Uncle Donut is extremely surprising given how little it changed from the mothlight performance, the harshness here works really well for me. A curious finish but more than welcome.

I'm glad others are into Cows more than I am, I'm sure I'll be able to listen to it more on its own terms in due course. With that said, I encourage any AC fan to check out the Mothlight show on Avey's bandcamp if they haven't already. It's one of the best shows ever.



*Down There especially, which I neglected to write about the other week. It surprises me that anyone could be lukewarm on this. It's basically the most flawlessly executed listening experience in the AC canon.

[roopn]

bullseye wrote:

This thing is a beautiful trip, the visuals are stunning, the music feels like its pulling the listener deeper into the murky depths with each song, or rather with each listen. It takes a few listens to reveal it's beauty. Listening to it feels like diving, or how I imagine what it must feel like to be weightless in space.
[...]
The few moments where the lyrics really stick out are really powerful though.The "Don't you see the truth is right in front of you?" in Coral Understanding sounds so desperate, it's heartwrenching. I love the way they integrate environmental messages in their music and it feels like it's coming from their hearts.

On no other AC record are the synth sounds as inventive as on TR, imho. The sound design is just on point. Everything sounds like it's alive, but it's living in slow motion.

Glad my thoughts resonated with you bullseye, cheers.
Totally right about the feeling of floating and weightlessness. The synths on TR are crazy. AC has been making synth music for years but they really flexed their skills on this album. So much of TR is still unfolding for me, having lay dormant for so long since its release

wrote:

At least they were honest enough to specify in the song title that it's indeed the worst of all the songs on here, lol.

hahaha

[Slippi's Applesauce]

foxtrot wrote:

This Geo cassette is fucking stunning and deserves much more of our attention

Oh I forgot I listened to that too again! Loved it. Would kill for a full length Geologist LP in this vein

[coral lord]

I wish I understood what everyone sees in Uncle Donut. It is definitely the most faithful representation of the live tour versions but it is probably my least favorite AC track ever.

[madameghostly]

Live in the Land of the Sky: i love it. very late 2000s, cassette-exclusive progressive electronic/ambient/drone-core, which happens to be one of my favorite genres. come on, Geo, just give us a full solo album already!

Tangerine Reef: first time, i went in expecting ODDSAC 2 and i was a bit disappointed. second and third times, i went in expecting a halfway decent ambient pop album and i liked it a lot more, but i still didn't super love it. call it recency bias but let's just say, if someone came up to me and told me this was their least favorite AC album, i wouldn't bat an eye. don't get me wrong, A: the worst AC album is still better than a lot of bands' best album, and B: it still has a lot of things going for it, but... it just feels like there's something missing. better pacing? maybe. some crescendos to break up the 50 minute nugget of at-times-aimless ambience? perhaps. good songwriting? ...i think i've said too much already

as for the visuals… eh, coral's nice and all and raising awareness for them is a good cause, but i didn't really think they were anything to write home about. forgive me for this, but near the end of my first listen (so far, my only listen that involved watching the film), i found myself opening other tabs to look at things that weren’t deep sea creatures. horrible, i know

BONUS
Suspend the Time: i’d say this is a tad more interesting than most of the stuff on Tangerine Reef. Deak and Geo are a winning combination, and Ami Dang and her sitar play along really nicely. still kinda suffers from the same "not much is happening" as TR, but i can't hate it

Cows on Hourglass Pond: wow, i have a new favorite Avey solo album again! 10 tracks. all killer, no filler (i'm not counting Chilly Blue as filler because it sounds nice on my ears), a tiny bit front loaded but hey nobody's perfect, this really is his indie pop album. i can see myself putting this on again and again and again in the future. KC Yours is top notch, of course, and probably my favorite track, but close second would be… oh, i dunno, pick any of the first four tracks (maybe What's the Goodside, that deep house element adds a lot)

BONUS
Tipped in Hugs / Dog Says Goodbye: a very nice pair of outtakes. stop me if you've heard this one before, but i reckon they could’ve been shoehorned into the tracklist of Cows without too much of a public outcry. Dog Says Goodbye just barely beats out Tipped in Hugs as my favorite but, again, these are both excellent songs

Conference of Birds / Birds in Disguise: almost as good as the album to which it is a companion. i feel like someone said this already, but this is like, almost FBK levels of being a really good, really cohesive companion EP with a great atmosphere... and then Uncle Donut comes on. nah i'm kidding, Uncle Donut's great, it's just that the contrast between it and some of the stuff that comes before is almost comical. you've got classic Avey brooding in Midnight Special and Enjoy the Change, the candles in the dark that are Red Light Water Show and the groovy Disc One, and to close it all out we have Avey's attempt at hyperpop. it's great

and i'm not listening to the music box recording because it's not the full thing and i also don't like that it's not split up into individual tracks. yes i'm aware that i'm weird

[Stan]

If you like the deep house elements of Cows, listen to the Mothlight show which is Avey doing deep house and Midnight Special sounds like a roar not a lullaby.

[Fovrodi]

Uncle Donut is scary, maybe "like" is the wrong word but it's a type of song AC doesn't do anymore

[roopn]

madameghostly wrote:

Tangerine Reef: first time, i went in expecting ODDSAC 2 and i was a bit disappointed. second and third times, i went in expecting a halfway decent ambient pop album and i liked it a lot more, but i still didn't super love it. call it recency bias but let's just say, if someone came up to me and told me this was their least favorite AC album, i wouldn't bat an eye. don't get me wrong, A: the worst AC album is still better than a lot of bands' best album, and B: it still has a lot of things going for it, but... it just feels like there's something missing. better pacing? maybe. some crescendos to break up the 50 minute nugget of at-times-aimless ambience? perhaps. good songwriting? ...i think i've said too much already

as for the visuals… eh, coral's nice and all and raising awareness for them is a good cause, but i didn't really think they were anything to write home about. forgive me for this, but near the end of my first listen (so far, my only listen that involved watching the film), i found myself opening other tabs to look at things that weren’t deep sea creatures. horrible, i know

very reasonable take, pretty much lines up with how I felt about the album when it came out. I think this one takes time, and not in the usual way AC albums take time.
on the visuals, it may help to know that all (if not most) of the footage is time lapse, i.e. the coral's motion takes place on a macro time scale. Really blew my mind when I watched knowing that. Fair it didn't hold your attention all the way through though.

[Stan]

I much prefer Crestone to Reef butterfly I'm going to Rinse them both today and see what I think. I might have Covid again, been feeling like shitttt and that brain mulch feeling is probably about right to drown in these two.

[madameghostly]

Stan wrote:

If you like the deep house elements of Cows, listen to the Mothlight show which is Avey doing deep house and Midnight Special sounds like a roar not a lullaby.

alright, but only because you asked nicely

Live At The Mothlight April 4, 2017: well, you weren't lying. i quite like these early, house-y versions of the Cows songs (and the Eucalyptus-y version of Midnight Special, and the normal version of Cemeteries, and the only version of Betty Was a Doctor which is way too good for Avey to have not done anything with it). i can't honestly say i really prefer any of them to their studio versions, except maybe What's the Goodside, but i am now wishing there was an AC deep house album. maybe someday

and get well soon!

btw which version of Homies is the good one again

[coral lord]

madameghostly wrote:

btw which version of Homies is the good one again

all homies is good homies

[destiny]

the vinyl

[scrambledgreggs]

I would say if you have a record player and the LP, then listen to the vinyl. otherwise if you're listening to a digital rip of the vinyl then you might as well just listen to the digital version which sounds much cleaner. plus you get to hear the peacock

[LeadHat]

Love cows & birds, here's some thoughts....
Listened to the mothlight 2017 boot so much. Probably my most listened to AC boot of all time. Finally getting to hear cows after 2 years of waiting was incredibly gratifying. my fave ac solo album. I remember hearing that early version of KC when it was known here as derriere too and being beyond excited for that.
I do wish eyes > disc one > betty suite stayed in tact from the mothlight show... house avey so sick I hope his next solo whenever that may be leans into that slightly.

[Jam]

This is kind of why I don’t think people would complain so much about demoitis if the boys were better about official boots. I think it’s great that we get these alternative version of material and get to see the songs change over time. A house version and a psych folk version of the same song is a really cool thing to have, not a downside to me. But the difference is we have a high quality recording of the Mothlight show — not the case yet with most of the other beloved boots such as Panda ATP or the rest of the Music Box Material. The PW era boots were a good start, along with the Blast Sessions and music box stuff, I just hope they continue to preserve the live side of their music in an accessible and high quality format.