[kingo]

Political debate - just what this board needed

[hybrination]

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

I don't frequent this board much anymore, made my original account back in 2011 before the second or third wipe. I check here from time to time. Great discussion. Good music. Funny discussion. But today after some months I come back to people saying if you disagree with Ariel Pink being removed from his label for attending a rally you're a piece of shit and a fascist?

Look, I don't care who you voted for or what side of the aisle you're on, but it's a bit silly to be attacking people for disagreeing with your assessment of Ariel Pink or his situation. Really disappointed to see this kind of discussion going on here. We really need that new AnCo album apparently.

Natalidae wrote:

for me, it was a Kilimanjaro peak of stress after reading all that gross news about him, especially after the events of Jan. 6th at the US capital. sorry for the extravagant ranting.

You are aware he just attended a rally and part of Trump's speech correct? He wasn't part of storming the capitol. Is that really cause to try and utterly ruin someone's life? I don't want to make this too political by any means. The underlying principles that allow people to excuse acting like this towards those with opposing view points is terrifying. If you really believe Trump was Hitler-tier, you may need to take a step back honestly. If not that, at least be willing to admit a majority of politicians and Presidents are corrupt, malicious, and willing to expand war and violence in order to fortify their own positions or their in-groups.

This tribalist mindset that is forming does not bode well for anyone and we really need to get back to accepting other people's views and hearing others out. Respecting one another. We are too quick to infer or interpret malicious intent from those we disagree with these days. I'm guilty of it myself, but I really try to be open and keep it in check. I'll just leave it at that.

I'd like you to be clear, what views do you think we need to be accepting of? Please lay them out clearly if you can?

I will say though: Trump supporters trying to characterize this as a simple political disagreement is disgusting.

Trump was an unambiguous white supremacist, his vocal supporters are largely unambiguous white supremacists. The only way you support Donald Trump is by at the very least being ok with white supremacy. White supremacy is by it's very nature untenable with an inclusive environment or mindset.
What you're arguing for isn't inclusivity, but for the right to express and low key normalize bigotry without repercussion.

[TetsuoUnderFire]

I had a whole long thing typed out here but as far as "shitty fans" go Hybrination, maybe you should look in a mirror tbh.

[onebraineno]

Anyway,

what do y'all think I can get for an unplayed thrash & burn cassette box set. I think I missed my opportunity to try and cater an eBay listing as "selling this classic album for someone to buy it and own the libs" but I think I'm past that stage now.

[TetsuoUnderFire]

hypo's wrote:

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

I had a whole long thing typed out here but as far as "shitty fans" go Hybrination, maybe you should look in a mirror tbh.

weak af

I really don't care at this point. I don't need to spend my time trying to change the minds of people who will never agree with me. But writing off anyone you disagree with politically as a "shitty fan" of Animal Collective is pretty petty and speaks a lot to someone's character.

[TetsuoUnderFire]

onebraineno wrote:

Anyway,

what do y'all think I can get for an unplayed thrash & burn cassette box set. I think I missed my opportunity to try and cater an eBay listing as "selling this classic album for someone to buy it and own the libs" but I think I'm past that stage now.

I think it would still be worth something. Not everyone has "cornpilled" him and plenty will still appreciate it. Worth listing it. Just keep the fucking politics out of it. You severely limit yourself in bringing that into the sale in all honesty.

[roopn]

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

hypo's wrote:

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

I had a whole long thing typed out here but as far as "shitty fans" go Hybrination, maybe you should look in a mirror tbh.

weak af

I really don't care at this point. I don't need to spend my time trying to change the minds of people who will never agree with me. But writing off anyone you disagree with politically as a "shitty fan" of Animal Collective is pretty petty and speaks a lot to someone's character.

I saw your post before you deleted it. You said hypo's wouldn't accept any evidence you gave so you just didn't give any?? And you said you believe trump isn't a white supremacist... I'd love to hear how you justify such a view after the whole "stand back and stand by" thing.

I understand this debate is way out of the scope of this board, plus I'm not American so I'm not fully informed, but I found that rant just totally baffling

[TetsuoUnderFire]

roopn wrote:

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

hypo's wrote:

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

I had a whole long thing typed out here but as far as "shitty fans" go Hybrination, maybe you should look in a mirror tbh.

weak af

I really don't care at this point. I don't need to spend my time trying to change the minds of people who will never agree with me. But writing off anyone you disagree with politically as a "shitty fan" of Animal Collective is pretty petty and speaks a lot to someone's character.

I saw your post before you deleted it. You said hypo's wouldn't accept any evidence you gave so you just didn't give any?? And you said you believe trump isn't a white supremacist... I'd love to hear how you justify such a view after the whole "stand back and stand by" thing.

I understand this debate is way out of the scope of this board, plus I'm not American so I'm not fully informed, but I found that rant just totally baffling

Stand Back and Stand By was a terrible choice of words and I really don't want to get in to a heavy political discussion. He said to stand back and let the police and federal LEO do their jobs. Stand back and do not get involved. Also this referred to the Proud Boys which are literally lead by an afro-cuban guy and hold members of many different races, sexualities and religion.

Trump gave 25 billion to historically black colleges and universities, had plans to provide federal funding to support black business owners getting their businesses off the ground after the Covid pandemic, won awards from the NAACP in the late 90s for helping get black men and businesses involved in Wall street, First Step Act, etc. He also garnered more hispanic and black support for the Republicans than any other Republican candidate.

I wasn't referring to hypo in my original post, I was referring to Hybrnation. You guys can think he's a white supremacist if you want. It's factually incorrect, honestly. He has disavowed white supremacist groups time and again and did a lot for the black community. We got the first prison reform bill in a long time under Trump due to him pushing for the First Step Act which worked to get criminals with minor offenses released. And ironically enough it was Kanye who helped push that along with his wife but seemingly some others want to sit here and say Kanye is evil too.

Anyway, my entire point wasn't about defending Trump. It was to say that writing off your political opposition as demonic evil white supremacists and demanding their lives be ruined is a sickening practice. And to see people here fully supporting it just really disappoints me considering so many of you seem to be tolerant, chill, loving people. But the moment it comes to politics if they are not the side you agree with they deserve the stake. That isn't tolerance and it certainly isn't productive.

cornpill culture is ridiculous. That's my opinion. It is nothing more than a means to deplatform and destroy those who speak out against the establishment narrative. Sure, a record label has the right to remove Ariel if they feel he was espousing views they disagree with. I can't argue that. But for you all to sit here saying that Ariel, as a Jewish guy from NY who supported Trump was supporting literal Nazi Fascist ideology is blatant bullshit and you know it. That is nothing more than partisan politics infecting your mind. I don't give a fuck if you hate Trump or Republicans or America for that matter. But don't go around preaching tolerance and anti-bigotry and then go spewing that shit.

[onebraineno]

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

onebraineno wrote:

Anyway,

what do y'all think I can get for an unplayed thrash & burn cassette box set. I think I missed my opportunity to try and cater an eBay listing as "selling this classic album for someone to buy it and own the libs" but I think I'm past that stage now.

I think it would still be worth something. Not everyone has "cornpilled" him and plenty will still appreciate it. Worth listing it. Just keep the fucking politics out of it. You severely limit yourself in bringing that into the sale in all honesty.

Come on dude, I was making a joke, who would actually do something like that? Calm down, Jesus Christ.

[denjanenna]

Geopolitical Monitor wrote:

As the world’s largest producer and consumer of palm oil, the palm oil industry has become an important part of Indonesia’s economy. At least half of the world’s palm oil supplies are supplied from Indonesia. Indonesia supplies with an output of around 40.6 million tons, and export volume of 29.3 million tons in 2018. This figure puts Indonesia as the world’s largest producer of palm oil, followed by Malaysia, Thailand, and Colombia. The size of the Indonesian palm oil industry has a significant role in absorbing labor. As many 4.2 million direct labor and 14.3 millions of indirect labor, while oil palm plantations run by independent smallholders can absorb 4.6 million people.

On 4 April 2017, the Indonesian palm oil industry was shocked by the issuance of the European Union (EU) Parliamentary Resolution on Palm Oil and Deforestation of Rainforest (palm oil and deforestation of rainforests). The issuance of this resolution is a challenge for Indonesian palm oil products, especially those that will enter the EU market.

Statistical data states that the EU is Indonesia’s second largest export destination with 14.35% market share, after India with a market share of 25.37%. The value of Indonesia’s palm oil exports in 2016 was the largest compared to Indonesia’s exports in other non-oil and gas sectors. With this strategic position, this issue is a concern for all related parties in Indonesia because disruption to Indonesia’s palm oil exports to the EU will have an impact on the Indonesian economy as a whole. Therefore, the issue of oil palm is an important part of Indonesia’s economic diplomacy efforts that involve all parties.

In early January 2018, the European Parliament amended the draft Renewable Energy Directive (RED) to include a ban on the use of palm oil biofuels in Europe after 2021. This move was strongly opposed by Malaysia and Indonesia. The two countries control nearly 90% of global palm oil exports. As part of the RED draft approved by members of the European Parliament, renewable energy will account for at least 35% of the EU’s overall energy use by 2030.

Biofuels made from food crops will be reduced to zero by 2030 under Parliament’s RED plan. The EU is a leader in efforts to mitigate climate change. The agreement that has been reached in the EU revision of RED II includes efforts to reduce certain categories of biofuels. The EU palm oil restriction then emerged when the European Commission issued a draft policy entitled Delegated Regulation Supplementing Directive of the EU Renewable Energy Directive II, which was submitted by the European Commission on March 13, 2019.

The European Commission ratified Delegated Regulation No. C (2019) 2055 Final on High and Low ILUC Risk Criteria on Biofuels. In the draft Delegated Regulation, the European Commission will use the ILUC criteria as the criteria for high vegetable oil ingredients as unsustainable and high-risk commodities. The determination is made by the European Commission based on the latest scientific information as a commitment to anti-discrimination action in preparing reports and delegated acts.

Apart from vegetable oil, the issuance of the European Union Council Parliamentary Resolution stating that palm products cause deforestation, create human rights violations, and do not support sustainability reflects encouragement from business players in Europe. This is because Indonesian palm oil products are considered a threat to the existence of the olive oil business.

Olive oil derived from sunflower seeds are very popular and widely produced in Europe. As a result, if palm oil products enter Europe, the two types of oil that are popular on the continent will be eroded. This situation presents the EU with even more dilemmas surrounding the import of palm oil from Indonesia. The need for oil is increasing day by day in Europe, while available land is very limited, and it is difficult to source any alternatives to palm oil.

Indonesia’s economic diplomacy aimed to fight for the export of palm oil derivative products at the World Trade Organization (WTO) highest stage, which is the WTO Appellate Body (AB) forum. Indonesia objected to the decision by the Dispute Settlement Body (DSB) panel in favor of the EU for the application of Articles 2.3 and 2.4, as well as Articles 3.1 and 3.5 Anti-Dumping Agreement (ADA). Indonesia only won claims related to article 7 ADA regarding the transparency of the investigation report. The panel’s decision resulted in a 2:1 position for the EU.

However, in another attempt, Indonesia won the lawsuit filed against the EU at the WTO over the imposition of Anti-Dumping Import Duty (BMAD) for biodiesel products from Indonesia. The final result of the DSB-WTO panel decision won the favor of Indonesia’s six claims against the EU. With this victory, now market access for biodiesel is widening and biodiesel exports to the EU can be restored. Previously the BMAD had been hiked to 23.3 percent from 8.8 percent in 2013, causing Indonesia’s biodiesel exports to Europe to fall sharply.

To resolve the dispute over BMAD biodiesel and the dispute at the DSB-WTO, Indonesia decided to take legal action through the EU courts. There are now seven major lawsuit claims directed against the EU. Not only that, in March 2017, Indonesia’s defense was again conveyed at the First Substantive Meeting (FSM) and was continued in the Second Substantive Meeting four months later. In the end, the DSB-WTO panel has seen that the EU dumping investigation process was inconsistent with the WTO Anti-Dumping Agreement regulations to the detriment of biodiesel imports from Indonesia. More specifically, the EU violated six provisions of the WTO Anti-Dumping Agreement in Indonesia’s dispute regarding its imposition of anti-dumping fees on biodiesel:

First, the EU does not use data submitted by exporters from Indonesia in calculating production costs. Second, the EU does not use data on costs incurred in Indonesia in determining the standard value as the basis for calculating the dumping limit. Third, the EU sets too high a profit limit for the biodiesel industry in Indonesia. Fourth, the method of determining the export tariff for one Indonesian exporter is not following the provisions. Fifth, the EU imposes a higher tax than the dumping limit should be. Finally, the EU cannot prove that biodiesel imports from Indonesia have a detrimental effect on the biodiesel price on the domestic market

The issuance of the EU Parliamentary Resolution and the EU Commission’s decision is a challenge for the palm oil industry in Indonesia. Because it has the potential to disrupt the running of the economy and harm various sectors, especially industry and labor. This resolution will also disrupt Indonesia’s palm oil exports to the EU, which is the second-largest importer of palm oil. Furthermore, the palm oil resolution is a form of discrimination and has political motives seen from the inequality of the resulting policies.

Alternatively, the vegetable oil of EU countries causes widespread deforestation but produces a small volume of production. It is inversely proportional to oil palm which uses less land but produces a larger production volume. From this, it is clear that the EU’s political and business motives stem from an inability to compete with Indonesian palm oil. Therefore, Indonesia has made various efforts to save the Indonesian palm oil industry. This is of course is done by establishing various forms of cooperation, both in palm oil-producing countries and also European countries themselves. Economic diplomacy through regional and multilateral patterns was successful, but steps toward the settlement of the trade war were carried out through the WTO, which was later won by Indonesia. This diplomatic effort has succeeded in pressuring the EU to start reconsidering its prohibition biofuel oils.

[TetsuoUnderFire]

onebraineno wrote:

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

onebraineno wrote:

Anyway,

what do y'all think I can get for an unplayed thrash & burn cassette box set. I think I missed my opportunity to try and cater an eBay listing as "selling this classic album for someone to buy it and own the libs" but I think I'm past that stage now.

I think it would still be worth something. Not everyone has "cornpilled" him and plenty will still appreciate it. Worth listing it. Just keep the fucking politics out of it. You severely limit yourself in bringing that into the sale in all honesty.

Come on dude, I was making a joke, who would actually do something like that? Calm down, Jesus Christ.

You sit in a thread with people doing exactly that and ask who is serious about it? Glad you also think it's a joke.

[meys]

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

Also this referred to the Proud Boys which are literally lead by an afro-cuban guy and hold members of many different races, sexualities and religion.

"but he's cuban, they can't be white supremacists"

cuban here, corny post, log off, do not interact

[TetsuoUnderFire]

meysell wrote:

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

Also this referred to the Proud Boys which are literally lead by an afro-cuban guy and hold members of many different races, sexualities and religion.

"but he's cuban, they can't be white supremacists"

cuban here, corny post, log off, do not interact

He's fucking black. That good ole multiracial white supremacy! I ain't going anywhere choom.

[lhtd]

i like animal collective because they expand what seems possible of imagination. sounds and words are polysemic; they seem to make sounds that are themselves not an object demonstrating a melody but are a subject in and of the composition.

i like to think that people that admire their music are people that are susceptible in being able to hear the metaphor inherent to things, and not merely collapse them into literal definitions, ontologies. I like to think that animal collective's music invokes imagination and a poetic sensibility.

when people speak––especially on this board––in "this or that" terms, or say "this IS that", it really registers to me as incongruent to how we gather together and listen to animal collective's music. which isn't to say we all approach them the same way, or even come to this board to talk about them, because clearly there are those here that are post-ac and seem to only stick around for a communal aspect. but the way we listen matters, and our listening speaks itself through how we choose and characterize our responses.

"white supremacy" is real. and it seems it's highly ineffectual at getting to the root metaphors of what's going on psychologically and consequently, socially. this debate surrounding ariel pink is very fascinating to me, and I believe necessary, but to collapse discussion of trump supporters/sympathizers into a canonical box wherein all are mere white supremacists seems harmful to what i understand to be the ultimate goal: a certain enactment of justice that uplifts concealed/repressed truth and pronounces beauty (yeah yeah a lil platonic, but w.e.).

it's challenging to find the rhetoric working on this problem seemingly tied up by the complex of the problem itself. seems self-defeating. a question that I have, to myself as much as to others, since this is an animal collective board might be: how can the style of listening that animal collective's music seems to evoke/invoke help us in seeing through the positions and discussions that engender this problem? there's more to say, and better phrasing, but this is me thinking aloud rn.

stay well, y'all

[rohcti]

jetski wrote:

[headroom)))]

I like about 10 or so Ariel songs out of 10 or so albums I've heard from him. Not a huge loss for me, but I feel bad for fans who might feel punched in the gut from his political views.

I also saw him body slam his 19 year old girlfriend on stage in San Francisco a few years back. It was pretty weird and disgusting to see. I recently read he did that at some other shows too. So maybe its part of his act. Never been a fan of things like that. I remember some punk friends showing me Gigi Allen videos where he's pulling a woman's hair and later getting someone to piss in his mouth. I guess it means something to someone, cause he has a cult following.

My political drivel below...

Spoiler: show

As far as Trump and white supremacy, its not as clear as some people make it. I'm Indian and voted Biden, but both my parents voted Trump. Not because they like him, but because they identify with conservative politics. When I tell my white friends about this, they're usually shocked and some wonder why my parents wouldn't vote for Kamala cuz she's 1/2 Indian. I find that pretty demeaning. Like "Hey! that person is part of your group. Why don't you vote for them?" Kamala made her career as an attorney convicting recreational marijuana users. Good luck getting a job or finding housing in a decent area after having that on your record. Ask Yemen about Obama/Biden international policy. What I'm getting at is that Trump is a monumental pile of garbage that had no business in politics and the Dems are more approachable pile of garbage. Trump is your racist/misogynist grandpa and Biden is your racist/misogynist dad.

I still have faith in some progressive groups and great young thinkers: Sunrise Movement, Food Not Bombs, Coleman Hughes!, etc.

All in all, Trump dropped the bar for human decency and the woke left dropped the bar for nuance and discussion. Its not over though, lets fix things! Discussion is the way forward.

Anybody want a John Maus shirt, black, size Large. DM me. I still listen to his music, just not a fan of the shirt design.

[Cooper]

Good post ihtd. Definitely damaging to cast off trumpers as default white supremacists (that blanket hate will only lead to more rittenhouse style murder) though I do believe that if they are not totally ignorant then they are at least OK with bigotry on some level. AFAIK it’s mostly people who like the idea of “hard work” and still believe in capitalism 100% enough to have moral cognitive dissonance (conscious or unconscious) when it comes to bigotry. Democrats are certainly evil as fuck, though it’s a preferred evil if they can ultimately get more money distributed to the working class

[rohcti]

By saying democrats are evil as fuck aren't you casting an even wider net than people that say Trump supporters are all white supremacists?

[headroom)))]

I guess ultimately do politicians really represent the interests of the citizens of the country? It seems like a poor way to align your personal belief system to. If you have an allegiance to being Dem/Rep or Liberal/Conservative then your dogma will eventually contradict your logic or personal beliefs at some point.

Its a very valuable thing to have a friendship or to socialize with people who disagree with you. We can't see our own errors as well as they can.

But Fuck Ariel tho, hahaha. I hope he makes recurring Fox news sadboy segments. Quality theater for sure.

[Cooper]

roark wrote:

By saying democrats are evil as fuck aren't you casting an even wider net than people that say Trump supporters are all white supremacists?

Yeah, that’s sloppy language on my part. But In a moral climate that damns specific evils that fall under the category of bigotry, something traditionally evil like murder doesn’t erase someone’s humanity the way charges of bigotry do. Dems can bomb innocent people and no one cancels them as “murderers” the way you can blacklist white supremacists. If you can’t recognize humanity in the most evil people then their feeling of alienation will fester the evil. I’m just rambling for fun though don’t get mad at me

[Cooper]

I don’t think anyone is incapable of gaining empathy. Like all things I think it should be dealt with deterministically. They have a mind virus that should be pitied. Obviously you should make moves to prevent their evil from manifesting into actual suffering. But there are so many reformed bigots out there. It’s not obvious to me that being mean to them works as a way of changing their ideologies- I don’t think that’s a good way to go about it. But just wanting to kill every fascist makes no sense and also completely ignores the reality of humanity (We are all confused and scared flesh-brains). Not that anyone in this thread has actually said they want to kill anyone

Edit: again I’m firing off thoughts without taking the time to consider their relevance to the discussion. You should read every post by me on this board with that in mind

[Cooper]

lol fuckkk

Life is weird

[rohcti]

I don't even know what this thread is about anymore lol. People on the right getting mad that companies 'c a n c e l' whoever they want is hilarious because they're almost always the ones that want a free (or freer) market. If you were to apply their arguments as to why, for example, a company like Hobby Lobby can deny people contraception when they're on their health insurance, it's a double standard. I mean with that religion is involved, but religion and ideology are kinda the same thing in my mind. It's fucking funny that people get so flabbergasted over labels or a company like Disney or what have you stopping their financial support for a person because they don't agree with what they say.

At the same time, I think that whether you listen to his music or not is really up to you. I never really listened to Ariel Pink's music that much, but I'm sure in the future I'll still enjoy it. I don't really have a problem with enjoying his music still, it's art and I think he still has value as an artist, but I totally get why other people would. Sorta hard to forget his support of a wannabe dictator at a fragile time in America. And so what if he's not making as much money now? His music will still be on the internet... and he'll still be a douche. I do think a lot of people can be reformed, though, and holding grudges or just straight up hating people is usually not a good thing. Look at Daryl Davis. He's a black man who converted so many KKK members even at the highest levels because he saw their humanity. There's still hope for Ariel Pink (lol) but when someone has a platform and they're using that platform to spread their shitty ideologies, and if a company has the power to take away the megaphone, then they should. I think the label definitely made a smart decision in dropping him.

[Fovrodi]

[Hash]

roark wrote:

People on the right getting mad that companies 'c a n c e l' whoever they want is hilarious because they're almost always the ones that want a free (or freer) market.

It's almost as if "the left" and "the right" are practically meaningless concepts that cloud discussion and turn everything into team sports and distract relatively poor and powerless people from forming any kind of political movement or engage in any kind of social exchange that might actually threaten the status quo in any meaningful way

[rohcti]

It's definitely too polarized and distracting, but I don't agree that right and left are meaningless concepts.

[Hash]

What do they mean?

[rohcti]

I get it, and it's an interesting discussion. People use those terms to separate themselves even further from people in their rival faction. And maybe I could have been more careful saying "people on the right," that triggers people pretty quickly. But it's kinda splitting hairs bruh. My point is that people who traditionally advocate for the free market approach (with as little oversight of companies as possible) seem to be making quite a bit of fuss that these companies are firing people that they don't agree with and it's kinda funny to me.

[Cooper]

Will definitely never stop listening to John Maus. His shit is too good

[Hash]

roark wrote:

I get it, and it's an interesting discussion. People use those terms to separate themselves even further from people in their rival faction. And maybe I could have been more careful saying "people on the right," that triggers people pretty quickly. But it's kinda splitting hairs bruh. My point is that people who traditionally advocate for the free market approach (with as little oversight of companies as possible) seem to be making quite a bit of fuss that these companies are firing people that they don't agree with and it's kinda funny to me.

I'm sorry but this is such a tired take to me. "The right" isn't an organisation of people who have sworn some oath about what values to uphold, and even if there was such an organisation of millions of people, they would probably all still disagree with each other about loads of things, and even individuals within "the right" are capable of changing their minds about issues as new information comes to them. And even the ones that are simply intellectually dishonest or ideologically inconsistent, like I dunno, is it really all that surprising or funny that there are people like that?? Attention is currency in the marketplace of ideas. People are socially, and often financially (when it comes to social media thought leaders and professional pundits) incentivised to spout reactionary, oversimplified nonsense constantly.

I could say "it's a bit rich that "people on the left" are calling for these white supremacists to be arrested and thrown in prison, aren't they anti-cop?" and because I've never specified which people I'm actually talking about, or what arguments they give for each of those positions, or if they have any actual connection to each other, it's impossible to judge whether I'm making a good point or not

[Fovrodi]

I'm gonna fight you dude

[rohcti]

I said maybe I could have been more careful with using that terminology. What more do you want? Another "tired take?"

[headroom)))]

Cooper wrote:

Will definitely never stop listening to John Maus. His shit is too good

This for sure. His Rough Trade mix is really great too.
I feel bad he got associated with that nazi comedy show troupe. Really really really hope he's not involved in that scene. I don't believe in abolishing (ha! no pile of corn here) an artist, but my knowledge of their character does affect how I perceive their art. I hope "Rights for Gays" wasn't some inside joke.

Also, Aryan is an Iranian/Persian word and Swastika is a Hindu/Sanskrit symbol. What were those hateful Germans thinking?!

[headroom)))]

roark wrote:

holding grudges or just straight up hating people is usually not a good thing. Look at Daryl Davis. He's a black man who converted so many KKK members even at the highest levels because he saw their humanity.

One of my favorite videos on youtube. I've watched it with many different people, cause I like his character and view on life so much. God Bless people like Daryl Davis!

[Hash]

I'm sorry for overreacting roark. It's not your fault that I'm fucking jaded and I shouldn't take it out on you.


Fovrodi I would love to fight you if it means I can actually meet someone else from CA in person for once

[Fovrodi]

love ya buddy I would never fight you unless you were high on PCP and self defense

[TetsuoUnderFire]

headroom))) wrote:

roark wrote:

holding grudges or just straight up hating people is usually not a good thing. Look at Daryl Davis. He's a black man who converted so many KKK members even at the highest levels because he saw their humanity.

One of my favorite videos on youtube. I've watched it with many different people, cause I like his character and view on life so much. God Bless people like Daryl Davis!

This guy was called a Nazi Fascist by Antifa in New Jersey or Pennsylvania area and said something to the affect of "I converted over 200 klansmen but I can't even talk to antifascists".