[myersbeard]

Does AC still have much to do with Paw Tracks? I looked to see if Ariel Pink is still on the label and he still is

I hadn't paid enough attention to how shitty this guy is, yikes

All these years I loved the song "Not Enough Violence" , little did I know he wasn't being ironic

[Natalidae]

.

[Dallou]

I mean do you want them to delete him from the history of the label ? They probably lost the password to their site anyway. Last time the fb page has been active was 6 years ago

[myersbeard]

I was just wondering if the label is still promoting his stuff. I don't think they should erase his history with the label but going forward I wonder if they will stop reissuing his old stuff or funding new stuff

[Ethmin]

Paw Tracks doesn't really exist in the capacity it used to. All their solo releases have been through domino for awhile now. Ariel's current label dropped him already.

[ingenue]

Why won’t he just conform already??

[Cooper]

Natalidae wrote:

beginning to wonder if irony actually exists outside of something built to counter propositions in logic

Lol

[Andrew_VB]

myersbeard wrote:

I was just wondering if the label is still promoting his stuff. I don't think they should erase his history with the label but going forward I wonder if they will stop reissuing his old stuff or funding new stuff

the rights to all those albums are with mexican summer now (who say they dropped him). so paw tracks doesn't really have an active business relationship with ariel. they also don't really seem to be an active business anymore either.

[hybrination]

ingenue wrote:

Why won’t he just conform already??

Yes nothing speaks non conformist like supporting the desperate attempts of a literal fascist to illegally hold on to power and further serve the interests of the rich and further bolster white supremacist thought, neither of which have been the standard operating procedure in this country for centuries.

[yoshinocherrytree]

hybrination wrote:

ingenue wrote:

Why won’t he just conform already??

Yes nothing speaks non conformist like supporting the desperate attempts of a literal fascist to illegally hold on to power and further serve the interests of the rich and further bolster white supremacist thought, neither of which have been the standard operating procedure in this country for centuries.

That's ridiculous. Firstly because coups almost exclusively involve military power. On the 6th, Nancy Pelosi spoke with Defense Department which ensured her they would not allow Trump access to the nuclear codes or anything else he might use. Military power in America, which is responsible for unimaginable suffering around the world, is firmly in the hands of goddamn Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi, just as it was in the hands of the famous drone-striker of children, Barrack Obama.

I cannot understand why people like you can think like this. It is very easy for me to think Trump is an evil person, to think that most of the people participating in the insurrection were evil people, to have donated every week to the Bernie campaign during the primaries and to even have voted for dementia rapist Joe Biden, AND ALSO to think The Doldrums is a weird good album or that Round and Round was a catchy song. I don't even like Ariel Pink that much.

But I just can't understand why you people want to have the same political opinions as every artist you've ever enjoyed. That's insane! Ariel Pink is an idiot! But he has made some interesting music! He helped bring R. Stevie Moore to wider attention. Wtf does that have to do with Trump.

Idiotic.

[hybrination]

Holy moly I didn't know animal collective had so many shitty fans now

Easy equation for me, being a POC, support for Trump is not just another political opinion when your support is for the bolstering of white supremacy.

You can be deeply dissatisfied with neoliberalism and electoralism and also not support a snarling racist game show host.

[yoshinocherrytree]

ok well it seems like we’re not gna convince each other but j to clarify—im a shitty AC fan beca i can imagine listening to Ariel Pinks music even tho hes a bad person and beca i think mexican summer shudnt have dropped him? doesnt make sense to me. id never argue that art is unrelated to politics and that artists choices dont affecgt their work, but id also never argue that artists with evil views shud have their art censored, esp when its not political art! one reason why is beca id wudnt be able to enjoy any art produced before like the 1950s!

idk like amiri baraka was antisemitic but his poems are incredible. gertrude stein was p racist in three lives but is also an insanely great queer poet. heidegger was a nazi sumpathizer but influenced so many ppl who did amazing work and who spent their careers fightting fascism like derrida or fred moten.

black and white thinkingg and wanting all artists to be unambiguously good seems like childish. like wanting super heroes instead of ppl.


anyway thats enoigh arguing for me gna go put on stgstv and calm down

[Dallou]

He only got dropped from his label because having a trump supporter/ conspiracy guy/ piece of shit on your little indie rock label is bad for their public image. People get fired, it happens.
He will have his masters, will be able to record and release music. Also nobody is forbids anyone to listen to him.
Now it seems you re having a problem with us not listening to him.
Also yes having different opinion is okay. The thing is your/his opinion is killing people and putting many people in actual danger so please shut the fuck up and try to understand that.

[yoshinocherrytree]

Dallou wrote:

He only got dropped from his label because having a trump supporter/ conspiracy guy/ piece of shit on your little indie rock label is bad for their public image. People get fired, it happens.
He will have his masters, will be able to record and release music. Also nobody is forbids anyone to listen to him.
Now it seems you re having a problem with us listening to him ?
Sur having different opinion is okay. The thing is your/his opinion is killing people and putting many people in actual danger so please shut the fuck and try to understand that.

uh wut. i mean my opinion about what? im anti fascist anti trump anti repubs and made calls for bernie and did volunteer organizing for homecare workers to unionize. but ad hominem
stuff or me bragging is stupif. i can still be an asshole even if i did a few good things and ariel pink can still make a good album even of hes an asshole!

im not worried about ariel pink, his dads some rich asshole and im sure he has enough money. i j dont think empty gestures like dropping him do anything to help. go volunteer. go make calls. go organize. but how is dropping ariel pink from a label ‘doing politics.’ ?? all marketing bs.

also ariel pinks opinions arent killing anyone! trumps opinions. sure! q’s opinions. sure! parler assholes opinions. baked alaskas opinions. sure! but who tf is looking to ariel pink for political advice?!?!?.


hes an asshole and went to a rally full of assholes and white supremacists but what does that have to do with anyone wanting to buy dedicated to bobby jameson on vinyl lmao? and why wud anyone want anco to like erase his work from paw tracks???. thats the epitome of an empty gesture!

[Dallou]

yoshinocherrytree wrote:

uh wut. i mean my opinion about what? im anti fascist anti trump anti repubs and made calls for bernie and did volunteer organizing for homecare workers to unionize. but ad hominem
stuff or me bragging is stupif. i can still be an asshole even if i did a few good things and ariel pink can still make a good album even of hes an asshole!

Let me correct my answear :
Sur having different opinion is okay. The thing is, his opinion is killing people and putting many people in actual danger so please shut the fuck and try to understand that. Also he is advocating his opinons.
Do you understand why some people might not want to have anything to do with him ? Do get my point ?

yoshinocherrytree wrote:

im not worried about ariel pink, his dads some rich asshole and im sure he has enough money. i j dont think empty gestures like dropping him do anything to help. go volunteer. go make calls. go organize. but how is dropping ariel pink from a label ‘doing politics.’ ?? all marketing bs.

He only got dropped from his label because having a trump supporter/ conspiracy guy/ piece of shit on your little indie rock label is bad for their public image. People get fired, it happens.

you cannot read it seems or try very hard to not understand.

He said some stuff that could hurt the brand he was representing so he got fired. Do you understand that ?

[yoshinocherrytree]

Dallou wrote:

yoshinocherrytree wrote:

you cannot read it seems or try very hard to not understand.

ok my post was a bit redundant--that's fair!

but i actually think you're the one being willfully obtuse lol...

maybe i'm totally misunderstanding BUT: this thread was started, it seems, because someone thinks the morally correct thing for anco to do is to remove ariel pink's albums for the label anco haven't even used in like 7 years.

that seems like a bad take to me! it feels like it comes out of this desire to make ambivalent things (for example, i like this person's music but i don't like his politics) less confusing and more simplistic.

anco published those ariel pink albums beca they heard his cd in their van and liked it. not because they were interested in his political philosophy.

and that seems ok to me!

[ingenue]

yoshinocherrytree wrote:

anco published those ariel pink albums beca they heard his cd in their van and liked it. not because they were interested in his political philosophy.

and that seems ok to me!

Better days, unfortunately. As this forum has proved a reflection of our culture at large, your politics is inseparable from your identity. And if your politics differs from those of the loudest, most ardent voices of the majority—left or right, it’s irrelevant—you’re simply no longer worthy of respect, forgiveness or even, oftentimes, your own bodily sovereignty. Black Americans have known this better than most, even after Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka.

[jetski]

[destiny]

ariel pink is a fuckin idiot, if you ever heard him talk about anything he droned on like a highschool freshman dog. also labels "functions" in the music industry is to give platforms to people and if they dont want to give their platform to an idiot whose running wild with trumpito's soldiers then that is their prerogative. look at the situation thru something other than ur own lens of privilege and dont say is people thinking artists are superheroes or however you tried to minimize their real opinions to. come to new jersey ill give you a louieville slugger sans lubrication see

[destiny]

also

[rehhrehhhrehhrooohhh]

paw tracks is no more

[ooouuu]

always thought the dean blunt and inga copeland cover of baby was better anyway

[ingenue]

ooouuu wrote:

always thought the dean blunt and inga copeland cover of baby was better anyway

Hadn’t heard this. Not too shabby. Who else has covered “Baby”?

[Cooper]

Ingenue, i appreciate the attempt at forgiveness and objectivity but the entire context of Trump is too glaringly evil for it to even be worth trying

[hybrination]

yoshinocherrytree wrote:

ok well it seems like we’re not gna convince each other but j to clarify—im a shitty AC fan beca i can imagine listening to Ariel Pinks music even tho hes a bad person and beca i think mexican summer shudnt have dropped him? doesnt make sense to me. id never argue that art is unrelated to politics and that artists choices dont affecgt their work, but id also never argue that artists with evil views shud have their art censored, esp when its not political art! one reason why is beca id wudnt be able to enjoy any art produced before like the 1950s!

idk like amiri baraka was antisemitic but his poems are incredible. gertrude stein was p racist in three lives but is also an insanely great queer poet. heidegger was a nazi sumpathizer but influenced so many ppl who did amazing work and who spent their careers fightting fascism like derrida or fred moten.

black and white thinkingg and wanting all artists to be unambiguously good seems like childish. like wanting super heroes instead of ppl.


anyway thats enoigh arguing for me gna go put on stgstv and calm down

Hmm ok well I guess I can see what you're trying to say, but still for me there's a line.
personally, knowing an artist holds shitty beliefs makes it hard for me to actively engage with that music effortlessly anymore because it immediately brings to mind said shitty beliefs and the entirety of the political apparatus behind that. At that point it's more work for me to dissociate my feelings about the politics from the art than it is to just move on

The mathematics shift further when it's a fairly well known artist who is influencing current politics that are directly affecting people you care about. I'm not supporting that, sorry.

[rehhrehhhrehhrooohhh]

hypo's wrote:

yoshinocherrytree wrote:

hybrination wrote:

ingenue wrote:

Why won’t he just conform already??

Yes nothing speaks non conformist like supporting the desperate attempts of a literal fascist to illegally hold on to power and further serve the interests of the rich and further bolster white supremacist thought, neither of which have been the standard operating procedure in this country for centuries.

That's ridiculous. Firstly because coups almost exclusively involve military power. On the 6th, Nancy Pelosi spoke with Defense Department which ensured her they would not allow Trump access to the nuclear codes or anything else he might use. Military power in America, which is responsible for unimaginable suffering around the world, is firmly in the hands of goddamn Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi, just as it was in the hands of the famous drone-striker of children, Barrack Obama.

I cannot understand why people like you can think like this. It is very easy for me to think Trump is an evil person, to think that most of the people participating in the insurrection were evil people, to have donated every week to the Bernie campaign during the primaries and to even have voted for dementia rapist Joe Biden, AND ALSO to think The Doldrums is a weird good album or that Round and Round was a catchy song. I don't even like Ariel Pink that much.

But I just can't understand why you people want to have the same political opinions as every artist you've ever enjoyed. That's insane! Ariel Pink is an idiot! But he has made some interesting music! He helped bring R. Stevie Moore to wider attention. Wtf does that have to do with Trump.

Idiotic.

lazy & boring take, what are you even after

why are you offended that people don't like it when other people say dumb shit and are a part of a larger problem

yeah it doesn't really change how much I enjoy his music but I'm still gonna call him a fucking moron and withhold monetary support from now on, who fucking cares if his records get pulled, he's a jackass

weird hill to die on but at least youre dead

this mf even spelled barack obama's name wrong

[Enn Eye]

Someone cornpill Kanye already, he’s far fuckin worse than AP. Can’t stand that Mf’r

[Natalidae]

.

[Maury]

yoshinocherrytree wrote:

im anti fascist anti trump anti repubs and made calls for bernie

Ah so this is why Bernie lost...

[Enn Eye]

Natalidae wrote:

well I disagree. well, at least, I'm more irritated at him than I am at Kanye. first of all, in addition to all that has been discussed above, I believe he hides behind his "status" as a musician the fact that he derives the majority of his living from his father (who fully believed his son was as great as Picasso, probably before he could even speak, you know, bc "good genes"), who, as a gastroenterologist, derived his millions from his involvement in the largest insurance scam in American history in which people were given life-threatening surgeries that they didn't need. (this is probably still occurring since his medical license was never pulled.) secondly, he dated a 19 year old when he was 38. thirdly, he raped her and gave her herpes. fourthly, he physically assaulted her on stage and coerced her into tweeting that fans coming to her defense were femi-nazis. fifth, fucking john maul (sp) gave an academic root canal dissertation over this in which his argument boiled down to 'he can't be sexist no matter what he does bc he believes gender doesn't exist,' which reminded me of the time Hunter Thompson described the re-election strategies of Nixon's stooges as sounding 'like a gang of junkies trying to send a rocket to the moon to check out rumors that the craters were full of drugs.' sixthly, fuck it I'm tired of thinking about this - oh, he wore a star of david necklace on fox to strategically (??) appeal to rabid ??? sorry, I can't figure out that crackhead shit... quitting now fr

https://exclaim.ca/music/article/john_m ... ontroversy
https://thequietus.com/articles/10133-a ... e-misogyny

thank you for giving me a good reason to (semi)articulate my irritation (partially) in a list-like form and goodnight.

p.s. actually I never really even listened to the music of AP! ha ha! I got a whiff of 'for Kate I Wait' and thought 'nope,' flicked all the commendations from his peers like the nasty boogers they turned out to be and NEVER looked back! 'Round and Round' isn't even that great people, emperor's clothes and whatnot

p.p.s Kayne strikes me as arrogant trash, whereas AP strikes me as... sociopathic

well now i agree with you after this round up of news. Both trash heaps with their best work far behind them

anyway heres this, now who wanted to delete this thread, i guess its time to do it

[Natalidae]

.

[TetsuoUnderFire]

I don't frequent this board much anymore, made my original account back in 2011 before the second or third wipe. I check here from time to time. Great discussion. Good music. Funny discussion. But today after some months I come back to people saying if you disagree with Ariel Pink being removed from his label for attending a rally you're a piece of shit and a fascist?

Look, I don't care who you voted for or what side of the aisle you're on, but it's a bit silly to be attacking people for disagreeing with your assessment of Ariel Pink or his situation. Really disappointed to see this kind of discussion going on here. We really need that new AnCo album apparently.

Natalidae wrote:

for me, it was a Kilimanjaro peak of stress after reading all that gross news about him, especially after the events of Jan. 6th at the US capital. sorry for the extravagant ranting.

You are aware he just attended a rally and part of Trump's speech correct? He wasn't part of storming the capitol. Is that really cause to try and utterly ruin someone's life? I don't want to make this too political by any means. The underlying principles that allow people to excuse acting like this towards those with opposing view points is terrifying. If you really believe Trump was Hitler-tier, you may need to take a step back honestly. If not that, at least be willing to admit a majority of politicians and Presidents are corrupt, malicious, and willing to expand war and violence in order to fortify their own positions or their in-groups.

This tribalist mindset that is forming does not bode well for anyone and we really need to get back to accepting other people's views and hearing others out. Respecting one another. We are too quick to infer or interpret malicious intent from those we disagree with these days. I'm guilty of it myself, but I really try to be open and keep it in check. I'll just leave it at that.

[kingo]

Political debate - just what this board needed

[hybrination]

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

I don't frequent this board much anymore, made my original account back in 2011 before the second or third wipe. I check here from time to time. Great discussion. Good music. Funny discussion. But today after some months I come back to people saying if you disagree with Ariel Pink being removed from his label for attending a rally you're a piece of shit and a fascist?

Look, I don't care who you voted for or what side of the aisle you're on, but it's a bit silly to be attacking people for disagreeing with your assessment of Ariel Pink or his situation. Really disappointed to see this kind of discussion going on here. We really need that new AnCo album apparently.

Natalidae wrote:

for me, it was a Kilimanjaro peak of stress after reading all that gross news about him, especially after the events of Jan. 6th at the US capital. sorry for the extravagant ranting.

You are aware he just attended a rally and part of Trump's speech correct? He wasn't part of storming the capitol. Is that really cause to try and utterly ruin someone's life? I don't want to make this too political by any means. The underlying principles that allow people to excuse acting like this towards those with opposing view points is terrifying. If you really believe Trump was Hitler-tier, you may need to take a step back honestly. If not that, at least be willing to admit a majority of politicians and Presidents are corrupt, malicious, and willing to expand war and violence in order to fortify their own positions or their in-groups.

This tribalist mindset that is forming does not bode well for anyone and we really need to get back to accepting other people's views and hearing others out. Respecting one another. We are too quick to infer or interpret malicious intent from those we disagree with these days. I'm guilty of it myself, but I really try to be open and keep it in check. I'll just leave it at that.

I'd like you to be clear, what views do you think we need to be accepting of? Please lay them out clearly if you can?

I will say though: Trump supporters trying to characterize this as a simple political disagreement is disgusting.

Trump was an unambiguous white supremacist, his vocal supporters are largely unambiguous white supremacists. The only way you support Donald Trump is by at the very least being ok with white supremacy. White supremacy is by it's very nature untenable with an inclusive environment or mindset.
What you're arguing for isn't inclusivity, but for the right to express and low key normalize bigotry without repercussion.

[TetsuoUnderFire]

I had a whole long thing typed out here but as far as "shitty fans" go Hybrination, maybe you should look in a mirror tbh.

[onebraineno]

Anyway,

what do y'all think I can get for an unplayed thrash & burn cassette box set. I think I missed my opportunity to try and cater an eBay listing as "selling this classic album for someone to buy it and own the libs" but I think I'm past that stage now.

[TetsuoUnderFire]

hypo's wrote:

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

I had a whole long thing typed out here but as far as "shitty fans" go Hybrination, maybe you should look in a mirror tbh.

weak af

I really don't care at this point. I don't need to spend my time trying to change the minds of people who will never agree with me. But writing off anyone you disagree with politically as a "shitty fan" of Animal Collective is pretty petty and speaks a lot to someone's character.

[TetsuoUnderFire]

onebraineno wrote:

Anyway,

what do y'all think I can get for an unplayed thrash & burn cassette box set. I think I missed my opportunity to try and cater an eBay listing as "selling this classic album for someone to buy it and own the libs" but I think I'm past that stage now.

I think it would still be worth something. Not everyone has "cornpilled" him and plenty will still appreciate it. Worth listing it. Just keep the fucking politics out of it. You severely limit yourself in bringing that into the sale in all honesty.

[roopn]

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

hypo's wrote:

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

I had a whole long thing typed out here but as far as "shitty fans" go Hybrination, maybe you should look in a mirror tbh.

weak af

I really don't care at this point. I don't need to spend my time trying to change the minds of people who will never agree with me. But writing off anyone you disagree with politically as a "shitty fan" of Animal Collective is pretty petty and speaks a lot to someone's character.

I saw your post before you deleted it. You said hypo's wouldn't accept any evidence you gave so you just didn't give any?? And you said you believe trump isn't a white supremacist... I'd love to hear how you justify such a view after the whole "stand back and stand by" thing.

I understand this debate is way out of the scope of this board, plus I'm not American so I'm not fully informed, but I found that rant just totally baffling

[TetsuoUnderFire]

roopn wrote:

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

hypo's wrote:

TetsuoUnderFire wrote:

I had a whole long thing typed out here but as far as "shitty fans" go Hybrination, maybe you should look in a mirror tbh.

weak af

I really don't care at this point. I don't need to spend my time trying to change the minds of people who will never agree with me. But writing off anyone you disagree with politically as a "shitty fan" of Animal Collective is pretty petty and speaks a lot to someone's character.

I saw your post before you deleted it. You said hypo's wouldn't accept any evidence you gave so you just didn't give any?? And you said you believe trump isn't a white supremacist... I'd love to hear how you justify such a view after the whole "stand back and stand by" thing.

I understand this debate is way out of the scope of this board, plus I'm not American so I'm not fully informed, but I found that rant just totally baffling

Stand Back and Stand By was a terrible choice of words and I really don't want to get in to a heavy political discussion. He said to stand back and let the police and federal LEO do their jobs. Stand back and do not get involved. Also this referred to the Proud Boys which are literally lead by an afro-cuban guy and hold members of many different races, sexualities and religion.

Trump gave 25 billion to historically black colleges and universities, had plans to provide federal funding to support black business owners getting their businesses off the ground after the Covid pandemic, won awards from the NAACP in the late 90s for helping get black men and businesses involved in Wall street, First Step Act, etc. He also garnered more hispanic and black support for the Republicans than any other Republican candidate.

I wasn't referring to hypo in my original post, I was referring to Hybrnation. You guys can think he's a white supremacist if you want. It's factually incorrect, honestly. He has disavowed white supremacist groups time and again and did a lot for the black community. We got the first prison reform bill in a long time under Trump due to him pushing for the First Step Act which worked to get criminals with minor offenses released. And ironically enough it was Kanye who helped push that along with his wife but seemingly some others want to sit here and say Kanye is evil too.

Anyway, my entire point wasn't about defending Trump. It was to say that writing off your political opposition as demonic evil white supremacists and demanding their lives be ruined is a sickening practice. And to see people here fully supporting it just really disappoints me considering so many of you seem to be tolerant, chill, loving people. But the moment it comes to politics if they are not the side you agree with they deserve the stake. That isn't tolerance and it certainly isn't productive.

cornpill culture is ridiculous. That's my opinion. It is nothing more than a means to deplatform and destroy those who speak out against the establishment narrative. Sure, a record label has the right to remove Ariel if they feel he was espousing views they disagree with. I can't argue that. But for you all to sit here saying that Ariel, as a Jewish guy from NY who supported Trump was supporting literal Nazi Fascist ideology is blatant bullshit and you know it. That is nothing more than partisan politics infecting your mind. I don't give a fuck if you hate Trump or Republicans or America for that matter. But don't go around preaching tolerance and anti-bigotry and then go spewing that shit.