[soothsailor]

Those three-part vocals during the "sea of light" section of Genie's make me ascend so hard

Sea of LIGHT (ohhhhhh-hooooooo) (eee-eee-eee-eee-eee-eee-eee)

[scrambledgreggs]

Collected Animals wrote:

Slippi's Applesauce wrote:

Look i love this album I really do. But for some reason I have little desire to listen to this record. With chz, Pw, and TS I listened to all of them 20-30+ in the first week. But here we are and I’ve maybe heard IIN 4 or 5 times in full.

So one thing you should not discount is the possibility that you are growing more diffuse with age. It's been what's happening to me, the number of releases that get over 10/13/15/18 listens has generally been fewer and fewer for me each year



But with that in mind, I do also find myself more inclined to take it slow with this one, like it's easier to see different aspects each time I listen when I give it this kind of space.

I think part of it is just this thing is an unwieldy beast. it's their longest album, it has multiple 6+ minute tracks and their longest recorded track ever right in the middle of it. that's part of why I love it, but it's by no means an album for every mood. I need to psych myself up (and also find a large chunk of uninterrupted time) to listen to the whole thing in sequence

[pox]

for the Fake Fans who choose to skip defeat, i think this slightly shuffled order in the back half works pretty well

soul cap through magicians unchanged
stride
acab
gem
kings

gem is deflating on the heels of magicians; stride fills the defeat vacuum better, and in fact i think it benefits from this sequencing, no longer buried in the scattershot back half. gem also feels abrupt right after stride so i put it after acab, which has the courtesy to fade in. this is quite a satisfying album even if you remove defeat. i'm really digging it.

[hedgecore]

Skipping Defeat makes the album 100x more re-playable for me in one sitting. I wouldn't have listened to it nearly as many times without doing that (I listened to it all with Defeat last night though... Honestly I'd rather just listen to Magician's twice in a row haha)

ACAB is awesome and gives the album a unique feel (instead of being just straight up rock / psych jams that start and stop like "normal" music)

[foxtrot]

I find that putting Magicians and Defeat back to back works so well. Magicians is at the perfect point (track 4) where I’m ready to really dive deep into the album and then when it finishes and the gentle ambience of Defeat begins it sucks me in every time. I’m like ‘here we go’ and I can’t help but join the ride. Don’t know how you people are just casually skipping it on the regular.

[Canopy404]

ALL THE PIPES ARE BWOKEN

[foxtrot]

Have put this on again this morning and my six year old groaned and said ‘Why do you like Soul Capture so much?!’

[Nil_0001]

foxtrot wrote:

Have put this on again this morning and my six year old groaned and said ‘Why do you like Soul Capture so much?!’

SOUL CAPTURER NOW IT IS THE SEASON

[Nil_0001]

foxtrot wrote:

I find that putting Magicians and Defeat back to back works so well. Magicians is at the perfect point (track 4) where I’m ready to really dive deep into the album and then when it finishes and the gentle ambience of Defeat begins it sucks me in every time. I’m like ‘here we go’ and I can’t help but join the ride. Don’t know how you people are just casually skipping it on the regular.

I only have around 40 minutes on my way back from work, so it's kinda hard to listen to it without leaving defeat uncompleted (which is a sin)

[time5sumranch]

something about the start of gem after defeat strikes me so much as intermission music. like I can just imagine some stage production where the first act ends with the lead down really bad and it’s really dark and purple-y on stage that fades to black. then the lights in the theater come up up and gem starts. kinda dig it though. I feel like maybe defeat into stride would have been a good transition to gradually elevate the mood.

on the topic of people using the word “ironic,” i’m not totally sure I agree with that word. the choices are definitely stylistic. like I was just listening to smile by the beach boys and there are definitely moments of the playfulness foxtrot mentioned pretty immediately after the heaviness that is surfs up. idk, I don’t think i’m quite conveying what I want to in what i’m writing but so much of 60s psych is playful and these things people are calling “ironic” are homages to that. maybe that plays to dramatic irony, but it’s not like the band is trying to say “don’t take us seriously” or “this song is meant to be funny”

[dervish]

pox wrote:

for the Fake Fans who choose to skip defeat, i think this slightly shuffled order in the back half works pretty well

I have myself to blame for that - I broke my own “no singles rule” and killed Defeat over 3 months. I still think it should end the album especially with the Isnt It Now section being the last thing on Isnt It Now.

Also, Magicians is an absolute masterpiece. It’s AC’s No Quarter

[unrecordednight]

waiting til release day to listen - is it clear whether or not all the clubs are broken is an avey song or a panda song? despite all the descriptions i'm still having a hard time picturing what this song is like lol

[dio]

Def an avey song. Panda doing harmonies but unless panda wrote it and decided to have avey do lead, it's avey. Sounds.more him too

[unrecordednight]

cool cool ty

[famousprophets]

time5sumranch wrote:

something about the start of gem after defeat strikes me so much as intermission music. like I can just imagine some stage production where the first act ends with the lead down really bad and it’s really dark and purple-y on stage that fades to black. then the lights in the theater come up up and gem starts. kinda dig it though. I feel like maybe defeat into stride would have been a good transition to gradually elevate the mood.

Gem's verses have always felt a bit uncanny and "off" to me (not in a bad way at all) and the transition from Defeat really accentuates that. I love intermission music as a way to describe that feeling like a quick reset before the chorus snaps me back into the album.

[Alcohol]

I caved and took it for a walk today. Someone mentioned Surf’s Up above—I had the same thought on my first listen. Not regarding a particular song, but the way the record left me feeling when I’d played it through to the end. (Probably an irrelevant touchstone, but there it is.) There are aspects of these songs that, as a lot of you have mentioned, harken back to headier decades. Simultaneously, I’ve never heard anything like this. I don’t share the criticisms of the tracklist. I think “Defeat” is perfectly situated in the meat of the record. It is the shoulder season out of the delirious summer of the first half into the woolly and weird autumn of the second. Everything preceding “Defeat”—again, these are impressions following a first, single play through—feels comfy and contented. Of course there are hints of darkness and decay in “Magicians,” but the wheels haven’t come off. And then… “Defeat.” An apocalypse. The record (literally) turns over. We see its soft, white underbelly. “Gem” restarts the record, but now we’re seeing it in a funhouse mirror. Bum bum. A little levity after the funeral. “Stride” plunges us deeper into wherever it is “Defeat” has delivered us. I was floored by this song. Felt, on first listen, like a standout. The standout. “Clubs” sashays in—strange things are afoot at the Circle K. I can’t even recall the melodies. It’s uninvited, stoned, hits on your girl. I love it. Then “Kings.” Entropy. What goes up, must come down. What a journey! The carnies are taking down the tents. The run of “Defeat” through “Clubs” left marks. Wow. Can’t wait to go on this ride again. Thank you, Animal Collective.

[foxtrot]

Fantastic little write up dude! Loved it

[Nil_0001]

time5sumranch wrote:

on the topic of people using the word “ironic,” i’m not totally sure I agree with that word. the choices are definitely stylistic. like I was just listening to smile by the beach boys and there are definitely moments of the playfulness foxtrot mentioned pretty immediately after the heaviness that is surfs up. idk, I don’t think i’m quite conveying what I want to in what i’m writing but so much of 60s psych is playful and these things people are calling “ironic” are homages to that. maybe that plays to dramatic irony, but it’s not like the band is trying to say “don’t take us seriously” or “this song is meant to be funny”

I think the word ironic is not a suitable description of what I mean. Things like the bum bums, the very funky synth on ACAB, or the bells on Genies work as a sort of world building. Gem and I is a goofy sounding tropical psychedelic track, the bum bums are an stylistic choice that conveys that sort of playful 60's psychedelia feeling.

As I recall reading in an interview, Avey thinks humour is a big part of the psychedelic experience, so I interpret the big shifts in atmosphere as an instance of that, which lines up with the 60's tendencies. Not really for laughs, but to create a unique sense of confusion based on that. Same reason I love the bell in the middle of Genies, it makes you feel like you are sailing on a boat during a storm.

[hedgecore]

I will give Russell Elevado my money for him to give a crack at mixing Walker from the earlier album

[Hellomark]

At this point I'm willing to just kidnap the boys and Elevado, take them back to the stu and lock them in there until we get TIME SKIFFS 2: THIS TIME IT'S NOT DIGITAL (IT'S ANALOG)

[roopn]

Thinking about the tracklist, and how in multiple interviews over the last 12 months the band members said they weren't sure what to do with all the tracks.

I find the full tracklist wholly satisfying, but it also works for me viewed as follows:

First four tracks (sides A and B) are an ep approximately as long as fall be kind.
Defeat stands on its own.
Side D is a painters length mini-ep scooping up the leftovers.

I'm not saying separate releases would've been better, definitely not. But I think the final product benefits from this way its divided, making it more digestible. Maybe I'm just a vinyl guy but this is what's exciting me about the LP landing on my doorstep because it becomes a little bit choose your own adventure.

[Slippi's Applesauce]

scrambledgreggs wrote:

I think part of it is just this thing is an unwieldy beast. it's their longest album, it has multiple 6+ minute tracks and their longest recorded track ever right in the middle of it. that's part of why I love it, but it's by no means an album for every mood. I need to psych myself up (and also find a large chunk of uninterrupted time) to listen to the whole thing in sequence

i think this might be it. having a fantastic listen tonight while cleaning the house, magicians and defeat both hit me hard

[jerry wonder]

I've discovered the tracklisting for what would have been a perfect ten AC album combining IIN and TS:

1 Soul Capturer
2 Dragon Slayer
3 Genie's Open
4 Magicians from Baltimore
5 Defeat
6 Prester John
7 Gem and I
8 Royal and Desire

The production isn't different enough to make this jarring in any way

[hedgecore]

Hellomark wrote:

At this point I'm willing to just kidnap the boys and Elevado, take them back to the stu and lock them in there until we get TIME SKIFFS 2: THIS TIME IT'S NOT DIGITAL (IT'S ANALOG)

Honestly, make them sign a five year deal and he does all their releases. Spend years at Electric Ladyland going bonkos

[Dallou]

probably my fav since fall be kind. DefeaT works so much in the context of the album.
Honestly it's the first time that I listen to a new AC album (found out about them around centiped) and feel completly fufilled on the first listen and it feels so good. I also did not listen to the boots exept for defeat so everyting sounds new and fresh to me. I have listen to it a bunch of times and I am not tired of it also my gf loves defeat, acab and magician so that cool too

between the panda boom record and this one, this period is golden for me. Reset is like in my top3 PB album and this one is really fucking good, Magician, and sea of light, ACAB is so fun.

I am just an happy fan of the band

[Lacrimosa]

I sometimes kinda like where songs are going and it’s whenever Panda isn’t drumming. He’s one of my favorite drummers of all time but lately it has been very mid. Pretty disappointed overall by the album but I’m getting used to that feel.

[corrie]

OK so I have now listened to this album at least once every day since it freebirded and....
Soul capturer... by far my least favourite from the boots in the run up to the album but my god did they realise it perfectly, i love the meditative kind of stasis it has and the production whilst a lot of people said it reminds them of VU to me it gives a much more general 60s vibe, the production almost reminds me of much poppier 60s stuff, even like early beatles kinda, probably the strongest reverse demoitis I have ever had.
Genies... absolutely fantastic, so psychedelic how it just swirls and swirls with the interlacing vocal melodies, and then the final section reminds me of stereolab or something in the best way, also quite krautrocky as a whole, almost somehow sounds like neu or something which i am sure has always been an influence but has rarely been as apparent, also in the way it's hard to tell if it's an avey or panda song feels similar to prester john in that way, you can tell it came out of the sung tongs tour...
Broke... well this is a lovely little pop song and the lyrics kind of intrigue me: 'with the sweat on a back from a broke zodiac' make me think it's about carrying your children on your back, like by being born they broke a zodiac... no clue if that is correct but it's what it evokes to me... although i will say in general I haven't been crazy on panda's contributions to this and skiffs,i still enjoy them a lot however I kind of yearn for a more long form, multi part journey like NTB or i think I can, it's just where his songwriting is at right now, shorter poppier songs, having said that I am beyond hyped for sinister grift, just feel that he is maybe getting further from the other guys in terms of ideas when it comes to full band stuff...
Magicians... well, I knew going into this that magicians had the potential to be one of my favourite AC songs ever and man it lived up to it. Avey's vocals in the middle section are the most impassioned since probably laughing hieroglyphic and i love the stop-start beginning, feels like a gigantic machine starting up... I love the vocal production in the final section and this song has my favourite contributions from Geo are perfect, all the noises throughout serves the song so well and my god the guitar bends are just as good on record as live, top 5 AC song of all time for me right now but time will tell.
Defeat...This is rightly the centrepiece of the album and an absolute behemoth, you can really tell the gravity they felt on nailing this song ( could say the same for magicians tbh) where it feels so important to them, they nailed it and whilst i do think the music box version remains my favourite they really nailed the recording of this one as well, only criticism is i kind of wish i hadn't heard it before the album released but that is more to do with my impatience and listening to the single release 100 times, however still one of their most perfect songs and I kind of wish i could experience listening to it the first time as a non-obsessive fan on listening to the album the first time... anyway, standalone a great song and i still have no desire to skip when it comes on which is testament to how much they KO'd the recording of this one.
Gem and I ... OK so I am not in the no 'bum bum' camp however on first listen i found it so so distracting that i struggle to enjoy the song, I have come round to it now but i still think they are mixed WAY to high, like they are by far the loudest thing in the mix... however I love the melody on this one and it's probably my favourite panda tune of the era so I can't complain at all and as I said i have now come round to the production choices.
Stride... maybe one of the least AC sounding songs they have ever recorded but my god i love this one, deakin's songs bring a very different vibe that i really appreciate and i think this is his strongest one ever, I love the choice to have all of the backing vocals also be done by him and it's probably their clearest use of piano maybe ever (unless you count maybe 2 sails, I know feels had a lot but felt like more a part of the whole) when the drums properly come in it is transcendent and really maybe deakin is the best singer of the lot which i never thought i'd say, you can feel his emotion clearly...
ACAB...OK so whilst I do enjoy this song on it's own and it is definitely something different for them i can't help but feel that it doesn't really belong on this album, the sound palette is so different from everything else and it doesn't flow well in the overall sequence, having a song just fade in from silence is such an un-AC move, have they ever done that before, closest i can think of is on a highway... anyway it is still a good song but doesn't quite hang properly with the rest for me, kind of makes me think it could be a direction they head in after this, even though the songs here are still very sense overall they feel a bit more minimalist than their last 2 albums and it makes me wonder if a denser more disorienting thing might be what they go to next...
Kings... did not expect this one to sound so hopeless and i really love it, I kind of love how they ended the album on such a low key note and as others have said it sounds like an AC song that has always existed they just only tapped into it now, considering they use harmonies so extensively it's kind of surprising that only this and college really use it as the central core of a song rather than an accent ...
Overall I really think they nailed this album in a way which they haven't quite done since ChZ ( I love that album despite the general mixed consensus) and whilst it is too early to say where it will end up in the overally ranking it stands shoulder to shoulder with their absolute best...
sorry that was a lot longer than i expected but I really wanted to give some time to it to let it grow in my mind a bit

[blindmowing]

Awesome post

[corrie]

blindmowing wrote:

Awesome post

thanks, I came back from a 4 week holiday and the topic had jumped like 40 pages so i felt i had to share my thoughts on it...

Also I would add, somewhat cynically maybe, but i think this album is ripe for getting a lot of praise critically, it's ambitious in ways that maybe chz and pw weren't... obviously i shouldn't really care about how well they are received given that it won't change the album for me at all but i am excited to see how it will be received. I just like to see them do well and it feels like they are finally escaping he long shadow of MPP in that respect

[MFpotus]

My perfect Time Skiffs Now album:

Prester John
Magicians From Baltimore
Dragon Slayer
Strung with Everything
Gem & I
Cherokee
Genie's Open
Broke Zodiac
Defeat
Passer-by
Soul Capturer

[Alcohol]

corrie wrote:

Stride... maybe one of the least AC sounding songs they have ever recorded but my god i love this one, deakin's songs bring a very different vibe that i really appreciate and i think this is his strongest one ever, I love the choice to have all of the backing vocals also be done by him and it's probably their clearest use of piano maybe ever (unless you count maybe 2 sails, I know feels had a lot but felt like more a part of the whole) when the drums properly come in it is transcendent and really maybe deakin is the best singer of the lot which i never thought i'd say, you can feel his emotion clearly...

Aren’t there some Dave vox in the mix? Rats—I’ll have to give it another listen. But I agree—“Stride” is the one song on the record I can’t wait to replay, and like you I haven’t really jived with Josh’s vocals on past records. He’s a more nuanced and controlled singer now though. I also think he’s escaped the long shadows cast by Dave and Noah. For a while he was kind of copping some of Panda’s affects. With “Stride” it really seems he is—excuse the pun—finding his voice. I love how gently the song ends. Sublime.

[KidEatsKeyboard]

I can hear Dave and Noah in bits of Stride. I can't be totally sure, but I bet the "baaaaaaack" harmony has both of them plus several layers of Deak. And during the "just take a stride" bridge I can hear the timbre of Noah's voice, and he usually sang that harmony live. And the second time that part comes around I can hear the doo-wop-esque "eeeeee" Avey did live, just buried in the mix.

[corrie]

on listening to it again, even the first 'let's invite all the songs that we know harmony does sound like it could be avey', don't know why on multiple listens it has sounded to me like deakin doing all parts but i actually could be so wrong especially the 3 part harmonies you are right i can hear all of them now i listen to it with that in mind, the ear is easily swayed to what it wants to hear i guess, so clearly avey in there now i listen

[corrie]

Alcohol wrote:

corrie wrote:

Stride... maybe one of the least AC sounding songs they have ever recorded but my god i love this one, deakin's songs bring a very different vibe that i really appreciate and i think this is his strongest one ever, I love the choice to have all of the backing vocals also be done by him and it's probably their clearest use of piano maybe ever (unless you count maybe 2 sails, I know feels had a lot but felt like more a part of the whole) when the drums properly come in it is transcendent and really maybe deakin is the best singer of the lot which i never thought i'd say, you can feel his emotion clearly...

Aren’t there some Dave vox in the mix? Rats—I’ll have to give it another listen. But I agree—“Stride” is the one song on the record I can’t wait to replay, and like you I haven’t really jived with Josh’s vocals on past records. He’s a more nuanced and controlled singer now though. I also think he’s escaped the long shadows cast by Dave and Noah. For a while he was kind of copping some of Panda’s affects. With “Stride” it really seems he is—excuse the pun—finding his voice. I love how gently the song ends. Sublime.

also just to be clear, wide eyed is actually one of my favourites off centipede, especially follint father time which was always my favourite from the boots, i love chz but my god if it was a looser record could have really been unbelieveable, they would have benefitted from the production of rusty on that one, a more low key production could have made it literally their best record, if the whole album was crimson/gotham style

[rohcti]

Stride is mostly Deak harmonizing with himself, with some PB harmonies as well ... PB can be heard clear in during the "than thaaaaaat" and "love that makes you cry" parts. Avey I think only comes in on the second "don't hide behind" part, where Avey is doing the "ooh ooh ooooh" parts in the back of the mix

Great song, but yeah it doesn't really sound much like AC. Probably the one I'm most ambivalent about being on the record, but I do love it. I think it might have been better situated directly after Defeat

[zebrahman]

Only listened a couple times so far but surprised some aren't vibing with Genie's, definitely one of my favorites from the entire era.. I've replayed it more than anything else so far.

I was surprised how well King's works as the closer but I never doubted their track list capabilities.

Magicians: dope. Totally evolved and realized in studio.

I re-echo the sentiment that Clubs has Ariel Pink flavors, but also reminds me of Moondog, whom they've shoulder-nudged as an influence before. If you listen to his records you'll hear where they channeled this one from largely. It's like Pink Moondog. Lol..

This album really reaches higher from the production. One major side-impression is that if Time Skiffs had this level of production it would've done it a-lot of good. I like Skiffs but is has yet to take a place in my heart as significant as their other records honestly, though sometimes it takes a-while..

[rohcti]

I think this album is very influenced by Defeat... very altered by the song exists, so every other song is gonna kinda lead to that for better or worse. Genie's Open has kinda always been a song that competed for that headspace, so think they decided to make it a bit laid back for the studio version. From the title to the placement of Defeat as the centerpiece, Defeat kinda makes or breaks this album. After all, it's about a third of the experience. If you include Magicians , it's about half. I think they did a fantastic job translating Defeat and Magicians to studio, so the album really works for me. And the rest is kinda a cherry on top

[Alcohol]

Good points. After a second listen, I’m realizing the arc of this record is the inverse of my original interpretation. “Defeat” isn’t so much a precipice—it’s a trough, after which is the climb up and out. “Isn’t it now?” Isn’t it all over? “No, not now.” “Defeat” is where the winds shift. The dark before dawn. There’s hope yet—“crack open another beer.” Beware the doomsayers—“this world is tougher than it looks.” This record is basically a rebuttal of Greta Thunberg.

[Stories and Games]

deakin really does come through with some lovely nuanced delivery on stride rite, far less clinical vocal performance than that of r&d. the way he stops short on that second "and *let*— them goooooo" particularly sticks to me

also i totally understand thinking it doesn't sound much like ac but i think that first verse before the drums come in is so aggressively seal eyeing, would've been even more so if he'd kept the prolonged "staaaaaaaayyyyyyy"s

also i do think stride has a fair amount of brain tickling AC Sounds From Space type stuff that a lot of people seem to be generally missing on this record

[nothingmastered]

Defeat adds a gargantuan heft to this record, and ties the narrative of it together acting as the "abyss/ordeal" in the hero's journey. It's presence on the album sets the backdrop for the other songs, and Defeat's themes are given more nuance and depth by them in turn.

Magicians/Defeat is a(nother) career-defining artistic statement from Avey of epic proportions.