Has anyone from the band actually said that if the pandemic wasn’t a thing, we would have gotten one big mega triple album?? It doesn’t really seem like their style tbh. I think we would have ended up with similar results. Just perhaps some songs shifted between the two records.
I think they said they were supposed to record in March 2020…so if there hadn’t been a pandemic, the album could have been the 13 songs from the 2019 tour and that’s it. Maybe an album plus an ep.
Weird to think that they were so close to that recording...only a month away and then the world disappeared, every plan was of no use and everyone had to improvise . Feels strange to think about it. Still I'm fine with how things turned out. Skiffs works as skiffs and Now works like Now.
Listened to Magicians in the car a couple times in a row. What an incredible song. And the kick sounds so fucking clean. And that rattling bass sound that I mentioned in the chorus... jesus christ!!
To me that song "earns" it's length (I honestly thought it was around 5 min until I saw the actual run time of 10). The song morphs between the different sections perfectly and it never outstays it's welcome.
Defeat is not the case for me right now, and I'm in the camp of they should have just left it off the album. I wonder how much of leaving it on had to do with the digital age of people skipping songs/making their own playlists etc.... adding it as a "fuck it" kind of decision. Even on the record, you can just skip that whole side and move on to the next one. But it honestly doesn't matter one bit... just random musings. I'm just thankful for the new music
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didnt they say in 2019/2020 that they had workshopped 17 or 18 songs? since we ended up with 18 i wouldnt be surprised if every song but SC had been worked on, just not debuted yet
Geo plays a lot more like regular music now for lack of a better term, if you haven't seen them live in a while I feel like it might be hard to pick up on. He has two full keyboards that he often plays along with Deakin in addition to his samples and hurdy gurdy. Still textural but less hit that sample here and then that sample there and push the faders up and twist those knobs" kind of thing. He's all over these songs, just not in the way you're expecting probably.
I did see them live playing these songs in 2022. I guess I accepted the sparseness more because it was live. I figured they'd add little extra sounds in the official release. I do have a habit of nit picking music so it might just be my problem to overcome haha. Just can't shake the feeling that right before the last "Crack open another beer" there should be like a "ShwooOOooOOooOOoop!" rising in pitch or something.
8-9 listens through now. Gem has grown on me a good bit. The only song I don't love is AtCAB and I wish they left it off. Feels like it's the type of thing that would've ended up as a B-side if they had more leftover material.
It can't be overstated how good 'Defeat' is. The fact that they were able to not only pull off a 20+ minute psychedelic three-part suite, but completely knock it out of the park is just beyond me. Probably my track of the year when all is said and done and top 10 AC song.
Clubs is fantastic and nowhere near as strange as I thought it would be based on reading this thread.
I think there are definitely some really strange decisions and pacing issues. I don’t have a problem at all with Defeat being somewhat in the middle but I don’t think it should have been a single then. It’s clearly a masterpiece but having been released 3 months before the album and then having it placed where it is just doesn’t make sense to me.
The second part of Genie’s Open is such an awkward and abrupt switch - has it always been like that? (I stayed away from all the boots) I do think Gem and I would have been a better 2nd track maybe.
Magicians and Defeat are seriously impressive songs and expertly crafted in the studio. I also really love Soul Capturer. It has that magical AC sound, imo.
Panda voice and drumming are peak levels for sure all over the album.
apologies but Stride sounds exceptionally out of place and like it’s from another band and another studio. I’m not feeling it at all just yet. It’s so nail on the head and blunt force sadness. Maybe it will come around with more listens.
Sorry to have more negatives in this post than positives. All that said though, I’m extremely excited about exploring this for a while, it just seems awkwardly structured after the first few listens. Also I think the single choices were weird but again, just my opinions which really mean nothing
A++++++ production. Blown away by the boomy crispyness. That shouldn’t even make sense but that’s how it sounds so far. Sorry if any offense taken by initial feelings and certainly will change with repeated listens as all good AC albums do.
Cheers all. This has been great reading everyone’s thoughts. I appreciate it!
No matter what you think of the other songs, at least we can mostly all agree there are 30+ consecutive minutes on the album that are basically untouchable. Magicians and Defeat
Basically all I've listened to today. Genie's and Magicians are getting about equal play now. I skip over Defeat quite a bit, but I still played it twice earlier. Broke Zodiac and Gem tied for most played, wow those are some earworms. Genie's biggest grower by far. Love singing along
Defeat as a single only seems weird because we're all mega fans. Average listener won't really know/care and on a longer time line, when everything settles, Defeat will just be that epic mid album AC track.
P.S. have spent the last 3 hours sitting here marking papers and all I want to do is jump in my car and crank this bad boy. Trying to get to the end of my marking and keep asking myself 'Isn't It NOW?!!'
I love it so much and I am so incredibly grateful. Only band to ever release this many absolute classics for me.
P.P.S. Just counted and I now have 7 classic, 5 star, all time favourite albums from AC. That is mind blowing. Next closest is The Flaming Lips with 4 (but all from 90s/early 00s - haven't released one in over 20 years).
Defeat as a single only seems weird because we're all mega fans. Average listener won't really know/care and on a longer time line, when everything settles, Defeat will just be that epic mid album AC track.
for sure. it still holds up amazingly well, even after the single release. it'll be just fine where it is on the album
broke zodiac is just the most heavenly thing. cannot get enough of the production of these tracks.
First off, I’ve been a long-time lurker of this board, and I’m gonna comment extensively the first time. This is the best community in all of music and pretty much of all the internet right now. I signed up for an account the same day Deak freebirded this and I was punched within minutes. You all are the best.
This is an 8.5/10 album for me. Let me be clear that the sequencing makes absolutely no fucking sense whatsoever. Not just Defeat in the middle, but the final Stride-Clubs-Kings stretch is awkward as hell in theory. It should not work at all. Yet the more time I spend with it, the more it actually does work in some insane dream-logic way.
I haven’t been listening to the boots quite as long as most as you have. I really started in earnest last year after Time Skiffs was released, while trying to gage what songs were left. To get to my main caveat- I wish that I was more into Defeat. I’ve never mainly connected with AC for their lyrical chops (nor do I for most music), but more so for how they seem to connect with me personally on a kind of spiritual level. The song just doesn’t do quite enough musically to grip me over 22 minutes. Call it sacrilege, but I would’ve preferred it to be edited down to Visiting Friends length. And although I agree the second half of Magicians rules, its slow start makes the middle section of the album as a whole just feel a bit sludgy for my taste.
I simply would have swapped Defeat with Kings. Kings would have given you that needed mid-album breather between Magicians and Gem just as effectively, and then you can do what you will with Defeat as the last track. But I respect our boys with going with what feels right and, again, the more I listen to it the more it kind of works.
Every track SOUNDS fucking awesome though. My favorites are Genie’s, Zodiac, and Gem. (And Clubs to a lesser extent, as that song flat-out slaps. I love how the first 20 seconds or so sound like a fake freebird from the 2000’s era, right before the boys come in and make it a legit banger). I don’t get why some have demoitis from Genie’s, as it sounds pretty much exactly like they’ve always performed it. As soothsailor said above, it’s a total blast to sing along with. Zodiac came out perfectly in every regard. And I could bump Gem for days. It sounds like Crossroads from PBMTGR meets the Sonic The Hedgehog soundtrack. And the bum-bums are a sublime addition.
To be honest, I was a bit disappointed the first time I listened to it on headphones. The next morning I put it on in my car speakers and this thing fucking THUMPED (Avey’s bass specifically). This is an album of cardboard being forged into steel. Panda’s drumming is once again insane. Deakin has thrived since the band put him in the Taysom Hill role.
TLDR: some personal nitpicks aside, this is my favorite album the lads have done since the Sung-Pavillion era. It nudges out Centipede and Skiffs, both of which I love… but these songs and this level of execution are top shelf stuff. More importantly, thanks to all of you for making this last week so much fun. I’ve loved reading everyone else’s thoughts and interpretations.
Yeh, its a great place to be. Only music fan forum I've ever stuck around on cause it has always had a good feeling about it and the people engage with the music in a much richer way than anywhere else.
Welcome, nice first post! glad to have you part of the bum bum gang
Gotta listen on some speakers, unfortunately my roommates are usually home so haven't been able to play much on mine. And I don't have a car atm (unlike Noah)
This isn’t an autumn album, it’s a BEACH album. Or maybe I’m just thinking that because I’m listing to these songs from a beach. But seriously, watching waves crash to Magicians from Baltimore or digging your feet in the sand to Gem (let’s get in it) really adds a whole new dimension to the experience.
Anyway, I am already skipping Broke Zodiac and Defeat with each new play and the album has improved drastically for it. Defeat is so so solid, but is just too damn long and singular, like an album within an album. And Zodiac is… just not that good. Like, at all. It’s lame and flat and I can’t stand it. I honestly can’t name another AC song that I feel this negatively towards. Maybe Spilling Guts?
I’m happy to report that Genie’s Open has clicked right into place and sounds lush as hell on this thing. The third section is still somewhat underwhelming and drags a bit, but parts 1 and 2 are easy highlights of this era. SC > Genie’s rules the school and is like the hottest shit since Moonjock > Supernatural.
Defeat be damned, Magicians is the soul of this record. Half the length and twice the impact while still remaining epic in its scope and earnest in its delivery. Love the piano work and it’s great to see piano make a return with Deakin’s contribution. Stride sounds just as beautiful as it did live, though somehow less psychedelic, which is a small shame.
Kings is too damn long and isn’t near interesting enough for how sparse it is. And coming after ACAB, it just makes the the whole ending feel like an afterthought ~ like trying to squeeze the last bit of toothpaste out of the tube. I know COVID really through things for a loop but there were better ways to handle this.
As strange as it is to say, this may be one of ACs weakest albums to date despite having some of their very best tracks to date. Soul Capture, Genie’s Open, Magicians from Baltimore, Defeat, Gem and I… these are all 5 star tracks that I will cherish. But Isn’t It Now, the album, I don’t think I do cherish. But do I appreciate it? Yes, with all my heart I do. And thaaaaaaats’s my opinion.
Not trying to argue with your opinion, obviously, but aren't the 5 tracks you listed basically like 80% of the album? I would think any album that has that kind of 5-star power would be one of the band's strongest releases. Maybe you just dislike Zodiac and Kings enough to sway it?
I cannot fathom any fools who dig gem and I over broke. Broke is panda perfection and gem is cool too but panda coulda put a little more umph into his vox
yeah i've always been genuinely puzzled by people emphasizing gem over broke as *the* pop hit of the bunch. broke is just so obviously a cut above, platonic ideal latter era noah song, whereas gem is more or less as good as car keys (probably less)
A few people saying there isn’t that much going on in these songs. While I agree that there is a real sense of space and of the band in a room I’m still picking up on all kinds of little hidden layers of texture just like I always do with AC. Here are a few tiny details I’ve recently picked up and enjoyed:
Soul: this high beeping/squeaking noise that might be an overtone from the guitars that appears at 3:30 for a few seconds
Genies: this weird insect buzzer noise that zaps a bunch of times from 2:50-3:10ish.
Broke: there are these awesome little bits right at the end of each chorus line where this two note kinda thing boops twice on an upbeat. Right after ‘stayyy welll’ (bedoop bedoop!) and ‘vaaapours’ (bedoop bedoop!).
Magicians: 3:36 - solitary guitar note gently rings. Again at 4:04. 4:55 Deakin’s wordless backing vox over Avey’s ‘just for tonight’ line.
Gem: Deakin’s slightly off time ‘sun’ at 0:58 and 1:00. Also love the super high synth part in the chorus which I didn’t notice at first.
More coming soon. Let me know if you bother to listen and pick these out.
- that beeping/overtone in SC reliably makes me v anxious lol but the recurring WHOOSHes during the instrumental bridge are actually heavenly (might just update this comment with thoughts as i listen for the first time)
- really dig how dense and swampy pts 1+2 of genie's are but the vocals do need much more reverb, they feel so itty bitty compared to everything else. the surprise sparseness of part 3 makes me think that's maybe the intended impression? idk. i dig panda's kinda dopey delivery on the Sea of Light's
- good god broke zodiac is just such a good fucking song. different studio-specific chorus lyrics! will take a lil to adjust to them hehe
- genuinely amazed how well the beginning semi-ambient bits of magicians translated to studio, jolting in a way i honestly didn't think it would manage to be. decidedly iffy about this fuzz bass for the moment lol, but oh lord what a wonderful song this is, those dadrock guitar squeals are truly SQUEALING in the outro
- okay yes it's very odd that defeat is the fifth song, i can already tell that the following four tracks are going to feel like a weird epilogue transmitting profoundly mixed messages about exactly how seriously we are or aren't supposed to be taking this record. but man this opening five track run just rules so mercilessly hard that the album is already some level of success in my book no matter what happens after this. and defeat still really is a breathtaking piece of music after all this time. the first section is speaking to me especially loudly this time around, the Take Hold's just absolutely dripping with emotion. still mad about avey's bassline in the middle section sorry! okay moving on
Last edited by Stories and Games on Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
Not trying to argue with your opinion, obviously, but aren't the 5 tracks you listed basically like 80% of the album? I would think any album that has that kind of 5-star power would be one of the band's strongest releases. Maybe you just dislike Zodiac and Kings enough to sway it?
I think my point was that the album isn’t that strong despite bringing the hits. It is weaker than the sum of its parts due to artistic choices that I, as of yet, can not get on board with. Defeat is great and makes up a whopping 30% of the album. However, I do not like Defeat’s inclusion on *this* album. I’d probably have felt the same way if Safer had been included on Strawberry Jam. For me, it’s not as simple as the more good songs then the better the album. If that were the case, the best albums of all time would be greatest hits compilations. Animal Collective has put out stronger albums with overall lesser quality songs than Isn’t It Now, like Painting With and Centipede HZ, and I simply find that to be very interesting.
A few people saying there isn’t that much going on in these songs. While I agree that there is a real sense of space and of the band in a room I’m still picking up on all kinds of little hidden layers of texture just like I always do with AC. Here are a few tiny details I’ve recently picked up and enjoyed:
Soul: this high beeping/squeaking noise that might be an overtone from the guitars that appears at 3:30 for a few seconds
Genies: this weird insect buzzer noise that zaps a bunch of times from 2:50-3:10ish.
Broke: there are these awesome little bits right at the end of each chorus line where this two note kinda thing boops twice on an upbeat. Right after ‘stayyy welll’ (bedoop bedoop!) and ‘vaaapours’ (bedoop bedoop!).
Magicians: 3:36 - solitary guitar note gently rings. Again at 4:04. 4:55 Deakin’s wordless backing vox over Avey’s ‘just for tonight’ line.
Gem: Deakin’s slightly off time ‘sun’ at 0:58 and 1:00. Also love the super high synth part in the chorus which I didn’t notice at first.
More coming soon. Let me know if you bother to listen and pick these out.
Didnt really pick up on the Soul or Broke ones so thanks, those are nice sounds. The rest, I knew of, but you pointing them out made me focus and appreciate them more. Maybe I'm too quick to judge. Cause when I think about it, I do love a lot of sparse AC songs. Loch Raven, Bleed, The Softest Voice come to mind.
mystical fucking voyage through the fog. dream-logic being the operative term, props to mauve
defeat pt. 3 is still unbelievable. avey's pure falsetto longing against the blaring horns brings me to my knees
magicians is of course perfect, I think my favorite anco song. I suspect that they slowed the tape down a fraction during the mixdown to give it that extra CHUG. geo's "woos" at the end mixed so loud is a sample application reminiscent of there's an arrow, stupendous choice
there's probably a few real nerdy old school tape tricks and effects utilized throughout, some maybe pulled from their trusty dub toolkit. the vocal delay trails leading into genie's final section as a possible example. genie's is wonderful, the intro is so nice
this iteration of stride is marginally my least fave, a little too wordy, but damn the arrangement is glorious. love the big whooshing and warping sound at 4:00
kings is perfect. geo shines here too, with a single drawn hurdy gurdy chord on those big resolves and then laser beams lol. there's also some subtle guitar they added that's nice
acab gets a free lease in my brain. definitely super 60/70s, village green meets syd barrett type stuff
broke is bathed in light. hard to believe how much that song grew from it's 2019 version. mostly just by slowing it down a little
I don't know what would have been recorded in 2020, but it wouldn't have this pent-up post-pandemic energy of uncertainty baked into their performances. It must have been so good to finally get together and bang this thing out, recording together like it was the last time they'd get to do so
Some people have said Defeat ruins the flow of the album. I wonder if this is only true because we are obsessively listening to this album over and over. Just thinking about my first listen and defeat didn't seem out of place at all. But of course if you're listening over and over than yeah, a 22 minutes slow dark song in the middle is gonna drag on. Maybe this album just isn't meant to be listened to regularly?
lol, what? That doesn't make any sense to me. Music is made to be listened to.
I initially thought that I'd often skip defeat, but whenever I hear the droned out notes that start off the song, I can't help but strap myself in for the ride. It's already mentioned a couple of times before in this thread, but having defeat available as a single months before the album does make it less exciting when listening through the whole album. I imagine that this wouldn't be a problem for anyone going into IIN completely blind.
lol, what? That doesn't make any sense to me. Music is made to be listened to.
I initially thought that I'd often skip defeat, but whenever I hear the droned out notes that start off the song, I can't help but strap myself in for the ride. It's already mentioned a couple of times before in this thread, but having defeat available as a single months before the album does make it less exciting when listening through the whole album. I imagine that this wouldn't be a problem for anyone going into IIN completely blind.
I don't think any music is made to be listened to over and over forever and ever. There is a limit to how much enjoyment can come from an album on repeat, no matter how good the album. So when I say this album might not be meant to be listened to regularly, I mean regularly as a subjective term. Maybe once a day, week, month, year, etc depending on who you are. Most music can be better appreciated when you take breaks from it.
Just had an idea about the album structure/journey: I think maybe Soul Capturer sets the scene but also warns us that we’re about to be transported to a fantasy land where everything is not as it seems. ‘Climbs out of the woods’. ‘Don’t tempt me, I don’t know what I’m gonna do in there’. Genies is us moving to this unreal world. ‘We’ll drift on through the night until we find the sea of light’.
Then at the back end Clubs is the moment we re-emerge from where we’ve been. I just listened to it and suddenly thought I was being brought back out of the fantasy. ‘Everyone’s a 9 to 5’. ‘They say they had never died’. Then Kings is the sober moment of realising you’re back in the real world.
- gem does indeed sound a bit confused. the aggressive drums and bass say "okay this song is a gritty heavy stoner vibe" but then the bum-bum's and noah's detached delivery chime in to say "no no no it's actually more of a mellowed-out stoner vibe" and then the song proceeds to argue with itself for three and a half minutes. still a quite good tune, the last chorus is wonderfully detailed... avey god fucking damn it stop playing the wrong NOTES why does it end like that
- allowing that yes, the 2021 version really should have been the final draft of this song (and deakin should've just gone and fully dictated avey's bass part himself), stride is unambivalently gorgeous to me. why exactly are people upset about the vocals? i'm not sure i get it, i want to hate this song as much as you guys do i feel so left out ;_;
- all the clubs are broken's being here is so obviously designed to make you say "isn't it now is like animal's collective's white album" and i refuse to say it, it doesn't have what she has. they shouldn't have spent the first 48 minutes of the record playing things totally straight if they wanted to get away with something like this ten minutes later. perfectly good throwaway song that belongs far, far away from this tracklist, sorry the haters are correct on this one
- kings is lovely, i like kings a lot i don't know what this album wants to be
even messier than i feared it would be, isn't it now almost seems to be telling you to feel free to stop listening after defeat and treat side 4 as assorted bonus goodies to what would be a remarkably strong and coherent 48 minute record. but no, i have to believe they believed in this tracklisting, and so i have to like this record less than i want to. it's still a less damning flaw than skiffs' all-pervading sterility, so ultimately this is my preferred document of this very long, very joyful, and very frustrating chapter of the AC story. let the fan mixes commence
Man, I'm so excited for r_o_s_s to hear these songs finally haha.
I was listening to Music Box yesterday for the first time in ages. Honestly pretty glad I didn't catch on to that set until I was accustomed to the most recent version of Defeat. In that alternate universe I'm not sure if I would've been happy with how it ended up. I actually do remember checking out Defeat along with Cherokee and Dragon Slayer back in 2019 and thought they were pretty good; then proceeded to forget about them for two years lol. Must've been on an AC cooldown after obsessively listening to them from ''15 to '17... good times.
To me, Music Box is their lightning-in-a-bottle once-in-a-lifetime jammy opus. Its ephemerality is what makes it appealing. There honestly would've been no way for them to replicate what they had on those two nights in the studio and please everyone. Very glad I can hear Defeat now as well as what it was back then and call them both god-tier masterpieces without that extra emotional attachment, but totally understand why some folks are still a bit peeved. Even that early Magicians is so dank, goddamn.
Fingers crossed we get a full soundboard after IIN and I hope everyone is enjoying the spoils of their patience. Can't say I was along for the ride the entire time but glad to be at the end of this era regardless.
Last edited by muark on Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- all the clubs are broken's being here is so obviously designed to make you say "isn't it now is like animal's collective's white album" and i refuse to say it, it doesn't have what she has. they shouldn't have spent the first 48 minutes of the record playing things totally straight if they wanted to get away with something like this ten minutes later. perfectly good throwaway song that belongs far, far away from this tracklist, sorry the haters are correct on this one
Hate to agree but I agree. Avey was right when he said he couldn't write short songs anymore. It's a really strong melody sure, but they don't do anything with it! No chorus? No Bridge? Cmon wtf. Plus the fade in and synths are corny as hell, sorrynotsorry.
yknow there's nothing about the song that bothers me inherently, i think it's genuinely very good taken as a weenish charmingly underdeveloped genre pastiche, but yeah this just isn't the album for that kinda thing
lol, what? That doesn't make any sense to me. Music is made to be listened to.
I initially thought that I'd often skip defeat, but whenever I hear the droned out notes that start off the song, I can't help but strap myself in for the ride. It's already mentioned a couple of times before in this thread, but having defeat available as a single months before the album does make it less exciting when listening through the whole album. I imagine that this wouldn't be a problem for anyone going into IIN completely blind.
I don't think any music is made to be listened to over and over forever and ever. There is a limit to how much enjoyment can come from an album on repeat, no matter how good the album. So when I say this album might not be meant to be listened to regularly, I mean regularly as a subjective term. Maybe once a day, week, month, year, etc depending on who you are. Most music can be better appreciated when you take breaks from it.
Sure, I don't necessarily disagree with you. But like you said, depending on who you are, the point where you'll get fed up with a certain piece of music is entirely subjective. Therefore, you can't objectively say "maybe this album wasn't made to be listened to on repeat". In the end, everyone can decide for themselves.
When I first heard feels, I thought the flow was a catastrophe. The first half is mostly fast paced songs and then everything slows down to a trickle after purple bottle, only to reemerge for the first 2 minutes of turn into something. After years of listening, I do love feels exactly the way it is. IIN is all over the place, and I guess time will tell if they'd done a good job with the tracklist. I already like it a lot better after about 12 listens than when first listening to it. And for me, ACAB breaks the flow of the album a lot harder than defeat does.
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