[dio]

Ok so to be clear the walker outro is just avey singing but maybe that's not what that comment meant with voice memos fragments, like I know what you mean.

Also I think if you did a total calculation you'd find that at least the slight majority of their body of work is ambient passages. This just isn't clear post hcti because their main LPs became so "song" focused whereas ambience is relegated to psycho actives, visual/film soundtracks and the rare (but recently less rare) extended outro/intro/transition that kind of went away after Feels for a bit.

So why wouldn't there be an extended outro for Prester AND an extended intro for swe back to back. I would never have a complaint like that if I'm at a buffet and offered more than I even need

[Stan]

I did explain why. The observation that their music historically contained more ambient passages isn't a justification to sequence two distinct ambient longueurs on album which otherwise features very little.

Or, in the context of your buffet metaphor, it's like going up for egg rolls, then spare ribs, then chicken and sweetcorn soup IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED BY tofu and sweetcorn soup and then getting your various main meal dishes. There is absolutely no logic or satisfaction to be found in DOUBLE SOUP.

[Fovrodi]

*Yoink*

NightlifeMingus wrote:

I tried this out and it might have ruined the original for me. love the pacing here, really enjoyed walker as a Derek-esque lift at the end (no shade to R&D, which is a great closer for its own reasons)

Thank you! I like it feeling more like the album is waking up and morphing, building momentum.

[Stan]

Yeah definitely a much better tl.

[Dusty]

headroom))) wrote:

Stan wrote:

I also don't even see why SWE needs an ambient intro. It adds nothing to an already long song and doesn't even set the tone. If it's there to give contrast to the bouncy opening when the song kicks in, well, again, the outro to PJ works perfectly for that. It's a decision I simply don't understand and it feels like a goof.

I kinda know what you mean in terms of there being a really long floaty instrumental passage between Prester and SWE. But, i think the intro to SWE is super crucial to the immediate hit of music. The tempo change from the bendy dreamy guitars into the fast twangy guitars is super cool. So I'd vote to cut out the Prester outro and long live the SWE intro. Honestly, I could never really get into Prester John, and skip it most of the times.

But while i'm on my pedestal, the hollering ending of SWE is kinda whack. I'm like whyyyyy isn't there more exciting drumming during this part. It feels disparately needing something to spice it up from the repetition. But this might be cuz I don't connect with that melody at all, so it sounds extra long.

Also Walker outro is BEAUTIFUL. It sounds like avey and panda singing two different voice memos in their phones and mixing them together. It sounds hella intimate, like they're sharing a page from their diaries.

200 Pages!! Woop Woop!!

This blew my mind when I found it out first but it’s actually Avey and Deakin at the end of Walker

[headroom)))]

What! Source, or I don't believe it.

[headroom)))]

Also, I don't mean to come off as a SWE hater. I think it's a nice song, just don't like the end that much. The 1st verse is incredible and really cool guitar tones all around. The song feels like the most Grateful Dead-esque song by them.

Also, dying from this last Stan/dio buffet debate.

[Fovrodi]

From the press kit

5. Walker
Avey Tare - Wooden Xylophone, Vocals, Waldorf Pulse
Geologist - Synthesizers (Iris, Eurorack), Samples, Hurdy Gurdy
Deakin - Bass, Vocals

[dio]

I mean ya ok stan I fully get what your saying, you're talking about pacing and I'm some kind of quantity over flow glutton. Idk I don't mind longer stretches of down time between the song-songs but maybe the solution is more weird lil song fragments like the Walker outro besides just more noodle-y passages that may or may not have much to do with the song it's preceding or closing.

And also I guess people have been confused about who is singing what since at least sung tongs. I thought it was just two aveys with very different filters singing the Walker outro.

I already said it but didn't everyone kind of love the ending of SWE initially. I stick by my theory that it's the kind of ending that ages especially on record, but man I sure liked it live at the '22 shows. They really need to score a Outback Steakhouse or Chilis commerical with SWE tho. And I stand by that.

[dio]

My deaf ass STILL thinks it's mostly doubled avey on the Defeat middle part and the "just a frightened mother" parts (!!!)

[rohcti]

dio wrote:

They really need to score a Outback Steakhouse or Chilis commerical with SWE tho. And I stand by that.

right after they score an Applebee's commercial with Soul Capturer

[rohcti]

Still gonna stand by it being Avey/Avey on the Walker outro. Cool piece nonetheless. And I will die defending SWE. It's like one of my top 10 AC songs. I actually think the PJ and SWE's ambient passages butting up against one another allows a perfect amount of space. BUT I would cut out PJ's outro in a heartbeat if we needed to trim the fat. Since they don't play it live I just don't see it being a 'part' of the song. but they play SWE intro because it's important buildup for such an amazing song

[Dusty]

headroom))) wrote:

What! Source, or I don't believe it.

Watch the music video, at the end of the song you can see Deakin singing the “panda” parts as the boats go by on the screen

[dio]

Huh ya weird guess it's avey/deak. Deak does tho have this register we haven't heard much at all like that one reeeeally sick track of Transverse Temporal, so maybe it's that. Like his falsetto I guess. (Edit upper head voice actually...Deaks gotta be the more distorted one on the left whereas avey must be the right one that sounds kinda telephone-y with the "switch on.... Summer" stuff)

And yeah I also think SWE is upper tier recent ac, esp the production and the mix and the structure, it feels great on the ears. And the pyrotechnic climax is so earned. The bridge on it alone is one of my fave skiffs moments (the "I've got these hands(?) I make a thing and it does) part not the "the sun's not coming out lately"

[dio]

When The Challenge drops soon, it'll put to bed the question of the intros importance..

[Stan]

dio wrote:

Idk I don't mind longer stretches of down time between the song-songs but maybe the solution is more weird lil song fragments like the Walker outro besides just more noodle-y passages that may or may not have much to do with the song it's preceding or closing.

More of those would always go down well with me. I don't dislike the ambient passages generally but in this specific instance, it's odd sequencing yep.

[Alcohol]

Love how Deak has been given room to grow into his true voice on the biggest stage imaginable. Kudos to the rest of the band. Even with “Wide Eyed” there was something naive in his delivery, something derivative of AT and PB. (Who can blame him?) With “Royal and Desire” and his background parts on Skiffs he is finding his voice. Excited to hear the studio treatment of “Stride”—dude has talent beyond the “guitar guy in AC.”

[blindmowing]

as time passes, it's becoming apparent to me that TS is the "Deakin album." his keys parts steal the show almost every song, especially on "Car Keys," "We Go Back" and "Cherokee" and to seal the deal his song is the best on the album...

the highlights of TS, in order: keys, drums, outros.

ya, Panda totally kills it on drums. wish they were highlighted a bit more in the mix some times -- especially on a song like "Walker" which after just listening again are absolutely stunning, but they get pretty drowned out by the other instruments.

criticisms:
-- still don't like "Passerby"
-- "Bolder" > "We Go Back"
-- wish they had kept extended intro to "Car Keys"
-- sequencing (Fovrodi order superior)

[foxtrot]

Alcohol wrote:

Love how Deak has been given room to grow into his true voice on the biggest stage imaginable. Kudos to the rest of the band. Even with “Wide Eyed” there was something naive in his delivery, something derivative of AT and PB. (Who can blame him?) With “Royal and Desire” and his background parts on Skiffs he is finding his voice. Excited to hear the studio treatment of “Stride”—dude has talent beyond the “guitar guy in AC.”

It's like if Paul and John actually respected George.

[tulis]

foxtrot wrote:

Alcohol wrote:

Love how Deak has been given room to grow into his true voice on the biggest stage imaginable. Kudos to the rest of the band. Even with “Wide Eyed” there was something naive in his delivery, something derivative of AT and PB. (Who can blame him?) With “Royal and Desire” and his background parts on Skiffs he is finding his voice. Excited to hear the studio treatment of “Stride”—dude has talent beyond the “guitar guy in AC.”

It's like if Paul and John actually respected George.

After listening to inteviews with him, I think a lot about Deakin finding his voice and his growth as a songwriter and vocalist, just really happy for him. He's got a strong musical instinct. Love that he's putting such strong stuff out under the group banner (never mind his solo work)

[taptherockies]

These passerbys, always steppin' and always passin'.

Certified turd moment.

[dio]

"stepping" is a kind of batshit insane word. As insane as the choice to change the ending from '19 version

[Slothrope]

I think 2019 passerby -> studio Passer - by (why hyphen) is the only moment I can confidently say this band shit the bed, and i try to force myself into denial about it every so often but i’m sorry. I just don’t understand. How can you drop “I wouldn’t miss, a moments bliss”. “I was abandoned…. so-o-onnn” is such an exquisite way to open a song. what the fuck avey

[dio]

Yeeeeeeah. Same man. I mean I "like album version for what it is...".. but Fuck. Avey decided the fever ray filter didn't sound enough "like AC" cuz uh y'know. Forget #1 or Loch Raven and all that. Hmmmmm. "World around me's crazy but I wouldnt miss/ a moments bliss... You can read the bottle guy" . Idk what that means but it's sick AF. I'm honestly pretty fine with the first part on

[bullseye]

I don't really care about lyrics too much, but yeah, the changes in passerby weren't for the better. I still love the TS version, as I think they pretty much nailed it with the music. But I also haven't listened to any passerby boots in a long time. They only thing I remember missing from the TS version is that deakins background vocals in the second half are basically absent. Other than that, I like the second half better than how they played it live.

[Alcohol]

Music is a young man’s game. I’ll miss AC when it’s over, but I would love to see Dave follow his visual art itch. I think he’s a genius there too.

[rohcti]

Alcohol wrote:

Music is a young man’s game.

[headroom)))]

Dusty wrote:

headroom))) wrote:

What! Source, or I don't believe it.

Watch the music video, at the end of the song you can see Deakin singing the “panda” parts as the boats go by on the screen

Woah! Good catch, I believe now!

[foxtrot]

Mystery solved!

[blindmowing]

had one of my favorite listens of this album ever tonight...this happens to me every time a new AC album comes out... suddenly i learn to respect and appreciate the prior one even more. so crystalline and clear, every instrument glows and pops. the wooden mallets on this thing are exquisite...wonderful singing, drumming, outros... this is their 'concise' album... really great stuff, and now that we've got IIN, just a certified back-to-back classic. AC reign supreme

[Collected Animals]

Alcohol wrote:

Music is a young man’s game.

Young people aren't even responsible enough to be allowed to rent cars, but they're supposed to be responsible for music? No. That's just foolish.

[foxtrot]

blindmowing wrote:

had one of my favorite listens of this album ever tonight...this happens to me every time a new AC album comes out... suddenly i learn to respect and appreciate the prior one even more. so crystalline and clear, every instrument glows and pops. the wooden mallets on this thing are exquisite...wonderful singing, drumming, outros... this is their 'concise' album... really great stuff, and now that we've got IIN, just a certified back-to-back classic. AC reign supreme

Yes! This happens to me too. Its the reason my favourite bands are always ones with rich back catalogs. The broader context of their artistic journey frames and helps me appreciate everything they've done.

[memememe]

psssst - it's totally unfair that TS + IIN will forever be linked and compared.... but i think I might like Time Skiffs more. I just think the the songs fit together better and is more cohesive. also love the little intros and outros on some of the songs that add to an overall mood

[Slippi's Applesauce]

Yeah I definitely need more time but I think as an album experience I enjoy TS more… might not help that we’ve had defeat so long and I get a little impatient to get to ACAB lol. But all of the little mini songs and the thematic experience definitely feels more cohesive for the skiffs. Doesn’t mean I won’t end up enjoying IIN more, just TS had a lot more to take in and affected me more immediately

[tulis]

blindmowing wrote:

criticisms:
-- still don't like "Passerby"
-- "Bolder" > "We Go Back"
-- wish they had kept extended intro to "Car Keys"
-- sequencing (Fovrodi order superior)

Ok, this is not personal, just want to express a contrary opinion, although I do understand and respect yours.
--personal opinion, but I've personally come around to Passer-by (similarly to Pulleys). That said, Passer-by is my least favorite of the Time Skiffs tracks.
--Disagree, strongly. Avey repeating "Bolder" in autotune is, for me, way less interesting than what we got with WGB, which I think is a great song--very dynamic and interesting
--Agree!
--Zero disrespect to Fovrodi, and I think their sequencing is good and worth listening to for an alternate experience, but I also feel like someone has to stand up for the sequencing selected by the band and honestly I think it works very well and I enjoy it immensely as is.

[tulis]

foxtrot wrote:

blindmowing wrote:

had one of my favorite listens of this album ever tonight...this happens to me every time a new AC album comes out... suddenly i learn to respect and appreciate the prior one even more. so crystalline and clear, every instrument glows and pops. the wooden mallets on this thing are exquisite...wonderful singing, drumming, outros... this is their 'concise' album... really great stuff, and now that we've got IIN, just a certified back-to-back classic. AC reign supreme

Yes! This happens to me too. Its the reason my favourite bands are always ones with rich back catalogs. The broader context of their artistic journey frames and helps me appreciate everything they've done.

Love this and agree with it. Context and perspective on growth or evolution, I guess, is fascinating to me.

[rohcti]

Just noticed this thread has supplanted the PBvsGR thread for my most active thread, I didn't think that would ever happen

[time5sumranch]

tulis wrote:

Zero disrespect to Fovrodi, and I think their sequencing is good and worth listening to for an alternate experience, but I also feel like someone has to stand up for the sequencing selected by the band and honestly I think it works very well and I enjoy it immensely as is.

second this, love the skiffs sequence as it is. tried fovs and found it interesting but didn’t open anything up for me the way it did for others. slayer as an opener, royals as a closer, and cherokee as the centerpiece is just so *chefs kiss.

though i’ll say, it feels highly intentional skiffs and now have no proper transitions and both are somewhat focused on the idea of time. the only kinda transition is the album version of SC and they gave us a version without that intro. it’s like a part of it is the collage-y nature that our brains store memories.

[foxtrot]

Hoping a few people reevaluated this and appreciate it anew in the broader context of Now and the whole era. It is an absolutely wonderful record and I love it very deeply.

[Fovrodi]

time5sumranch wrote:

tulis wrote:

Zero disrespect to Fovrodi, and I think their sequencing is good and worth listening to for an alternate experience, but I also feel like someone has to stand up for the sequencing selected by the band and honestly I think it works very well and I enjoy it immensely as is.

second this, love the skiffs sequence as it is. tried fovs and found it interesting but didn’t open anything up for me the way it did for others.

Thanks a lot for giving it a listen! At the end of the day there is no substitute for the genuine article, won't deny that. More than anything it's an excuse for me to spend more time with the songs. Been following this band for almost 20 years now and there really hasn't been a more exciting time to be a fan believe it or not