[Stan]

Avey Tane wrote:

blindmowing wrote:

<3

Great post, Stan. Loved reading that. Agree completely.

Stan is cringe and chuegy.

Yupppp.

The band Animal Collective is cheugy.

Listening to Animal Collective in my targa top on the way to the Lake District. Peak cheugy.

[captainlunatic]

foxtrot wrote:

kinda crazy to think when you consider that we've both probably heard live versions a hundred times already

Yeah, right! I was just thinking about how I went through the entire '22 tour earlier this year and listened to
every single Defeat, lol, and I'm still over the moon about how this studio version turned out. Couldn't have asked for anything better considering how much they had to get right to even come close to having it be "definitive", but they really really did

[foxtrot]

I feel like they must have been pretty aware of fan expectations with this one.

Or maybe they see the song as being just as sacred as we do

[Stan]

It feels like they do, it seems to have been treated with enormous care and reverence. They've left it very true to the source and embellished it with subtle dynamic changes, rather than rewriting melodies or introducing unfamiliar, overbearing elements. More than anything, they've kept the energy and emotional rawness of the live vocals. Again, I really wish they'd previously taken this approach with so many songs, band and solo, but the past is gone - they gave us Defeat.

[foxtrot]

For sure. Reverence is a great word.

They were never going to do a Cherokee with it.

[BoomCheese]

It’s funny how a second listen so often opens things up. I was pleased with the first listen - not overwhelmed or anything since I wasn’t as big of a fan of Defeat post the Music Box version and I tempered my expectations for the studio a lot given some recent experiences (e.g. Midnight Special). But since my second (and third, fourth, etc.) listen, I’m so damn happy haha. Loving it. The middle section’s so good! Something about the production in that is just so satisfying. And they nailed the third part. I felt strangely bored with the first section during my first listen, as someone else also mentioned, but since my second listen I’ve loved it all.

[BoomCheese]

Also a quick note: Avey’s delivery of “Defeat” is bloody huge. Perfect

[Tikwid]

iTunes on my laptop sometimes has a glitch where it plays songs slower and lower pitched than they should, I think if other programs are using up too much memory. It doesn't go too slow, and it's only about a semitone deeper, but it's enough to be instantly recognisable as more than just tiredness-induced time dilation. And it was last night of all nights, sat under the stars in my backyard nursing a mug of sweet tea, a cultivated environment for my first listen of studio Defeat after five years of waiting, that I got that glitch. I only found out after I'd finished the entire playthrough - at first I thought it was intriguing that they were playing it in the Music Box version's key of B instead of the more recent C, and the middle section seemed unusually slow and ploddy - but honestly I think the surrealness added to the experience, one final surprise after a half-decade of expectations. The textures and electronic effects in the first and last sections, in particular, sounded absolutely colossal at that pitch - less like the death of the world and more like its birth.

anyway yeah song of the year all years

[Slothrope]

pretty sure they modulate from C Major in the first two sections to A major in the 3rd section? Can anyone with better ear training confirm this? i was just playing around with the song on piano

[KidEatsKeyboard]

Slothrope wrote:

pretty sure they modulate from C Major in the first two sections to A major in the 3rd section? Can anyone with better ear training confirm this? i was just playing around with the song on piano

I've had the chords worked out on guitar for a while, you are correct

[Slothrope]

KidEatsKeyboard wrote:

Slothrope wrote:

pretty sure they modulate from C Major in the first two sections to A major in the 3rd section? Can anyone with better ear training confirm this? i was just playing around with the song on piano

I've had the chords worked out on guitar for a while, you are correct

Sweet, you can really feel the effect it adds to the song in the transition. It’s a bold choice

[Hellomark]

Some of Noah's "oh no, not now" deliveries at the end of the song really evoke Scott Walker for me, feel like you can really hear his influence throughout much of the 3rd section.

[captainlunatic]

several days and a couple dozen plays later and it's still bringing tears to my eyes and making me choke up, so thankful this exists

[Fovrodi]

Any other songs they could go full Michael Nyman on?

[foxtrot]

The other two epics: Magicians and Genies right

[hypo's]

listening to this for the first time I'm gonna cum

[Avey Tane]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpGitFIzamQ&t=10s

[poop]

It's good.
God damn they fucking nailed it.
Even my friends that haven't listed to AC in ages love it.
Can't wait for the new album. This production is so good.
I was not expecting it to end up being 20+ minutes, thought that would've cut it down in the studio. So glad they left it.

[alvinrowx]

I'm a bit puzzled by the 4:00-5:00 part, the melody and the chords are really similar to Loch Raven's ones. Each time I listen to it, I'm about to sing "Ooh Ooh, Ooh Ooh Ooh", like at the end of Loch Raven. It's the first time I feel like they've recycled something from an older song.

[Nil_0001]

alvinrowx wrote:

I'm a bit puzzled by the 4:00-5:00 part, the melody and the chords are really similar to Loch Raven's ones. Each time I listen to it, I'm about to sing "Ooh Ooh, Ooh Ooh Ooh", like at the end of Loch Raven. It's the first time I feel like they've recycled something from an older song.

Yeah you're right! THAT'S LOCH RAVEN HAHAHHAA!! Either way, that chorus affects me emotionally. Such a beautiful melody Stay grounded like the spruce

[alvinrowx]

Nil_0001 wrote:

alvinrowx wrote:

I'm a bit puzzled by the 4:00-5:00 part, the melody and the chords are really similar to Loch Raven's ones. Each time I listen to it, I'm about to sing "Ooh Ooh, Ooh Ooh Ooh", like at the end of Loch Raven. It's the first time I feel like they've recycled something from an older song.

Yeah you're right! THAT'S LOCH RAVEN HAHAHHAA!! Either way, that chorus affects me emotionally. Such a beautiful melody Stay grounded like the spruce

... and now the part from 9:40 to 11:30 is sounding like a new version of Turn into Something... Did they just decide to remix the end of Feels?

[andthephantom]

And I hear a lot of MPP in the soundscapes.

It really is a beautiful mash up of so many of their sounds.

[captainlunatic]

there have gotta be other instances of anco using a 2-5-1 progression than just loch raven and defeat...

they are in the same key tho that's true

[alvinrowx]

captainlunatic wrote:

there have gotta be other instances of anco using a 2-5-1 progression than just loch raven and defeat...

they are in the same key tho that's true

I was also talking about the singing melodies, and the intonations/rhythms in the middle part are also really similar to Turn into something.

[superspookyghost]

alvinrowx wrote:

... and now the part from 9:40 to 11:30 is sounding like a new version of Turn into Something... Did they just decide to remix the end of Feels?

I will not stand for Turn Into Something slander

[Number 420]

Song is kinda long could someone make a nightcore version

[Fovrodi]

Pfffffffffftttttttt

[blindmowing]

I'd love to see a compilation video of all the ways Defeat has changed over the years.

I just listened back to the Music Box version again and forgot how brisk that first (and third, actually) section is...Avey sings in a hurry compared to later versions. I prefer it. Second and third sections definitely improved vastly over time.

[destiny]

First time listening to the digital. Basically an entirely different song. I'll get back to you

[captainlunatic]

alvinrowx wrote:

captainlunatic wrote:

there have gotta be other instances of anco using a 2-5-1 progression than just loch raven and defeat...

they are in the same key tho that's true

I was also talking about the singing melodies, and the intonations/rhythms in the middle part are also really similar to Turn into something.

oh yeah my bad. i don't really hear it but that doesn't mean it's not true. they are both descending oohs. i think defeat is a better song than both tbh :hide:

[destiny]

the third section is fucking unstoppable.

[destiny]

My criticisms: The song can feel uneven to some, its two 10 minute sections bookending a 2 minute section.

My positives: It is the greatest song they have ever written and recorded.

[Slothrope]

captainlunatic wrote:

there have gotta be other instances of anco using a 2-5-1 progression than just loch raven and defeat...

they are in the same key tho that's true

I thought it was a IV-V-I

[Nil_0001]

captainlunatic wrote:

alvinrowx wrote:

captainlunatic wrote:

there have gotta be other instances of anco using a 2-5-1 progression than just loch raven and defeat...

they are in the same key tho that's true

I was also talking about the singing melodies, and the intonations/rhythms in the middle part are also really similar to Turn into something.

oh yeah my bad. i don't really hear it but that doesn't mean it's not true. they are both descending oohs. i think defeat is a better song than both tbh :hide:

Defeat >> Loch Raven and Turn into something 100%

[Stories and Games]

Slothrope wrote:

I thought it was a IV-V-I

it is yeah, AC is a I IV V folk band to the bitter end

[leahcim]

what's people's interpretation of the lyrics?

[Stories and Games]

basically where i'm at with this release is that it's the best possible version of what is still my least favorite iteration of defeat, and i've been through too much with this song at this point for the eventual studio version to feel particularly momentous anyway. the end section is truly gorgeous, there's a lot i wish was different about the first two sections (one thing i've not seen mentioned is just how different the instrumental elements of part 1 are compared to 2019), but i'm happy it's finally out. it's a great song and i'll love it forever

[Stories and Games]

leahcim wrote:

what's people's interpretation of the lyrics?

i think it's broadly about being obsessively afraid of losing the things that have made your individual life special but at the same time realizing that your (un)wellness is inextricably tied to the (un)wellness of the crumbling world around you. reconciling your personal apocalypse with a literal apocalypse, and then finally with the personal apocalypses of others. i think that last part is what the "just a frightened mother looking for her daughter" lyric is there to convey, and why it feels intuitively like the most crucial image in the song

[captainlunatic]

Slothrope wrote:

captainlunatic wrote:

there have gotta be other instances of anco using a 2-5-1 progression than just loch raven and defeat...

they are in the same key tho that's true

I thought it was a IV-V-I

ah yeah you're right. damn i'm on a roll. 2 and 4 are pretty closely related functionally, but a 2 tends to be in minor and a 4 in major (theory-wise anyway)

[preacherben]

Stories and Games wrote:

leahcim wrote:

what's people's interpretation of the lyrics?

i think it's broadly about being obsessively afraid of losing the things that have made your individual life special but at the same time realizing that your (un)wellness is inextricably tied to the (un)wellness of the crumbling world around you. reconciling your personal apocalypse with a literal apocalypse, and then finally with the personal apocalypses of others. i think that last part is what the "just a frightened mother looking for her daughter" lyric is there to convey, and why it feels intuitively like the most crucial image in the song

yep that's my interpretation as well. it's a examination of the destruction of self via the destruction of the world in the first section, and the last section flips that on its head