[Stan]

Once had a good day.

[destiny]

This is the best song theyve ever made so it makes sense to feel different types of ways about it. Well maybe second to always you but i digress

[preacherben]

Stories and Games wrote:

this sort of discourse makes me think a lot about how different music sounds to songwriters vs non-songwriters. like, i sometimes do feel like it's a curse that i care so much as a listener about the particulars of melodies and lyrics and chord progressions and song structures. i can tell myself that having a lot of firsthand experience with the mechanics of all those things lets me enjoy others' music more deeply, but i have no way of actually knowing that, yknow? how much of that "knowledge" is actually unnecessary baggage and false perspective? maybe it lets me get higher-than-average enjoyment out of mbv defeat but causes me to get higher-than-average frustration out of 2021-onward defeat? idfk. in any case i do think there's an important distinction to be made between "there's generally less energy and raw excitement in the studio versions" and "there are quantifiable compositional tweaks that appear to have been made in the recording process that i feel make the song fundamentally weaker"

literally all of it

[hedgecore]

Ding ding ding

I fall on the side of finding extreme intellectualizing / nit picking on either side of the fence (gushing/complaining) bordering on obnoxious. and puts everything on a pedestal

[Dusty]

I still love this song and have different loves for its different forms. 2019 will always be the most special to me but I find it hard to believe I won’t love the studio version as well

[wilandhugs]

preacherben wrote:

Stories and Games wrote:

this sort of discourse makes me think a lot about how different music sounds to songwriters vs non-songwriters. like, i sometimes do feel like it's a curse that i care so much as a listener about the particulars of melodies and lyrics and chord progressions and song structures. i can tell myself that having a lot of firsthand experience with the mechanics of all those things lets me enjoy others' music more deeply, but i have no way of actually knowing that, yknow? how much of that "knowledge" is actually unnecessary baggage and false perspective? maybe it lets me get higher-than-average enjoyment out of mbv defeat but causes me to get higher-than-average frustration out of 2021-onward defeat? idfk. in any case i do think there's an important distinction to be made between "there's generally less energy and raw excitement in the studio versions" and "there are quantifiable compositional tweaks that appear to have been made in the recording process that i feel make the song fundamentally weaker"

literally all of it

I can't really do the defeat discussion because of this exactly, or really any demoitis thing. Because I dunno, I really fucking love their studio stuff. It's experimental in a way that's very different than their earlier stuff, which is more 'obviously' experimental I think. Same with live things-- it's more to do with live music having this sort of immediate need to create a moment versus their later music having a more subtle extra dimension. Sort of horse shoe theory going on with music theory in my opinion--- you can only drive the analysis so far before you're stunned by a simple interval in a creative context(Visiting Friends versus Sweeper's Grin in a way).

So yeah. I think the greatness people loved in their prior music still totally exists live, and there are great boots and a push to release MBV and blah blah... so I'm happy with them progressing studio versions in a totally different direction... it would suck if I had no reason to listen to a recording if there was an identical, but 'better' version they did live... fortunately that's never usually the case.

[roopn]

beautiful

[captainlunatic]

Stan wrote:

Once had a good day.

WEEEEEEEE WERE THE GOOD NEEEEWWWWWWWWS

[Tropic]

Hmm I dunno there are endless youtube comment sections to post in if entirely rudimentary live v studio discourse on a band-specific forum is too annoying for you. Like I get that it's annoying in how much it's brought up but it's clearly a sticking point for many fans. Stan said it right with SJ probably best capturing their live sound--I'd go one further and say Safer is maybe the ultimate encapsulation of their live sound and what they're about. It's not necessarily a question of key changes and other minutiae that people obsess over either, I'd say it's broader grievances over production and vocal delivery which may all be filed under 'energy'. Midnight Special is probably a perfect example of this. I'm sure I'll love Defeat but if the vocal delivery is anything like MS it'll be a huge miss. You can cry about there being no true, definitive version of a song and the live versions 'always being there' but until the band is mass-releasing old soundboards that isn't a valid argument for me. We all want the albums to be as good as they can be, we're all obsessed freaks on here who want the same thing. As it happens, I've never been more sure they're going to nail an album than this next one

[wilandhugs]

Tropic wrote:

Hmm I dunno there are endless youtube comment sections to post in if entirely rudimentary live v studio discourse on a band-specific forum is too annoying for you. Like I get that it's annoying in how much it's brought up but it's clearly a sticking point for many fans. Stan said it right with SJ probably best capturing their live sound--I'd go one further and say Safer is maybe the ultimate encapsulation of their live sound and what they're about. It's not necessarily a question of key changes and other minutiae that people obsess over either, I'd say it's broader grievances over production and vocal delivery which may all be filed under 'energy'. Midnight Special is probably a perfect example of this. I'm sure I'll love Defeat but if the vocal delivery is anything like MS it'll be a huge miss. You can cry about there being no true, definitive version of a song and the live versions 'always being there' but until the band is mass-releasing old soundboards that isn't a valid argument for me. We all want the albums to be as good as they can be, we're all obsessed freaks on here who want the same thing. As it happens, I've never been more sure they're going to nail an album than this next one

I agree with this point too though. Honestly I wanted to bring up MS because it's probably the only song that I agree with that assessment, but I felt like it's an outlier to me. It just happens that, I don't know if we all really do want the exact same thing. Similar yeah, but not maybe exact. I'm not crying about this. I think it's great that people feel either way about this, just giving my opinion too.

[Tropic]

Thought your post was very good. Agree that live music does sort of have an obligation to produce a 'moment', something this band does better than most. But further back someone said that this issue only really crops up if you've heard the live versions first. Totally accurate, at least in my case. That version of Invisible Darlings Avey played the other night is gorgeous. If I had heard that first I'd be so bummed with how it sounds on the record. But this way I just enjoy them both. It's weird.

[opposite field]

There's a lot of long posts I'm not reading here sorry but I think if they started doing official live releases or archival stuff it would satisfy people and help build out the larger world of AC's work for those who aren't listening to audience boots all the time. Thinking of like Bob Dylan who has made a million baffling on record decisions only for there to be a clearly superior take put out 20 years later on a bootleg series release.

I think everyone on here kind of feels like the band is shortchanging fans or something because certain live versions are great but the casual fan or even someone who really likes the band might miss out because they're not willing to sort through a million mediafire links or don't even know they could. Official/archival releases would be one sort of solution and reinforces the like, "no song is set in stone" thing the band has always done.

Anyway defeat, good song

[lhtd]

I imagine a comprehensive live archive could be on the horizon as a semi-retirement plan.

[organic cat]

The blessings about the live versions is that you can hear them for free

[opposite field]

Tropic wrote:

You can cry about there being no true, definitive version of a song and the live versions 'always being there' but until the band is mass-releasing old soundboards that isn't a valid argument for me.

Ha, guess I should have read some before my last post. Where's the archive series boys

[scrambledgreggs]

opposite field wrote:

There's a lot of long posts I'm not reading here sorry but I think if they started doing official live releases or archival stuff it would satisfy people and help build out the larger world of AC's work for those who aren't listening to audience boots all the time. Thinking of like Bob Dylan who has made a million baffling on record decisions only for there to be a clearly superior take put out 20 years later on a bootleg series release.

I think everyone on here kind of feels like the band is shortchanging fans or something because certain live versions are great but the casual fan or even someone who really likes the band might miss out because they're not willing to sort through a million mediafire links or don't even know they could. Official/archival releases would be one sort of solution and reinforces the like, "no song is set in stone" thing the band has always done.

Anyway defeat, good song

this is true (definitely could use more official live releases) but not the whole story - I think part of the demoitis comes from imagining what a recording of that same live melody / effect / etc would sound like with crisp studio production (and without the ambient crowd noise from the live setting) and can understand the disappointment when the studio recording completely removes or changes that part (e.g. the end of passerby).

but yeah not listening to the live versions to the point of memorizing all the details would certainly be a solution for this, and of course it's totally valid for the band to evolve their art in any direction they see fit even if not all the fans agree with it

[blindmowing]

i think the most detrimental aspect of the band is their perspective on "saturating the market" with their music.

Avey keeps talking about how they do this slow drip release schedule now because they want listeners to sit with each release for awhile... seems like a bit of a push back to this era of constant information overload. as much as we blame Domino it does appear that the band has not pushed for more material being released at a faster pace.

Avey did mention he was starting to understand the perspective of releasing a concentrated amount of very different kinds of music and letting the listener kind of sort and pick through it on their own timeline, and i do hope this becomes the case as this decade progresses.

all of this is said re: archive series... i hope they loosen up and start releasing more boots on vinyl in and around the same years in which they have a studio project planned. i'm not saying they go full on King Gizzard, but two releases a year, more of an Oh Sees/Ty Segall level of output, would be more than welcome.

[opposite field]

blindmowing wrote:

i think the most detrimental aspect of the band is their perspective on "saturating the market" with their music.

Avey keeps talking about how they do this slow drip release schedule now because they want listeners to sit with each release for awhile... seems like a bit of a push back to this era of constant information overload. as much as we blame Domino it does appear that the band has not pushed for more material being released at a faster pace.

This is a good point though it's funny to me that they seem to be so hung up on this when we've gotten like 7 or so releases out of the AC camp in just the last 2-3 years alone. Compared to most bands that's more than some do in a decade.

[Dallou]

it's been more than a year since I listened to it and I am glad.
As long as we get a good recording of the music box, they can do whatever they want.

[Dallou]

it's been more than a year since I listened to it and I am glad.
As long as we get a good recording of the music box, they can do whatever they want.

[denjanenna]

It’s been more than a year since Dallou has listened to it

[Dusty]

It’s been

[coral lord]

yiiiiiiiiiiiiits been

[archie]

blindmowing wrote:

i think the most detrimental aspect of the band is their perspective on "saturating the market" with their music.

Avey keeps talking about how they do this slow drip release schedule now because they want listeners to sit with each release for awhile... seems like a bit of a push back to this era of constant information overload. as much as we blame Domino it does appear that the band has not pushed for more material being released at a faster pace.

Avey did mention he was starting to understand the perspective of releasing a concentrated amount of very different kinds of music and letting the listener kind of sort and pick through it on their own timeline, and i do hope this becomes the case as this decade progresses.

all of this is said re: archive series... i hope they loosen up and start releasing more boots on vinyl in and around the same years in which they have a studio project planned. i'm not saying they go full on K__g G_____d, but two releases a year, more of an O_ ___s/T_ _____l level of output, would be more than welcome.

fify

[archie]

keep those names out of this forum

[roopn]

lol why

[blindmowing]

opposite field wrote:

This is a good point though it's funny to me that they seem to be so hung up on this when we've gotten like 7 or so releases out of the AC camp in just the last 2-3 years alone. Compared to most bands that's more than some do in a decade.

haha ya it's all relative. just goes to show how prolific they are that they're showing restraint by only putting out that many releases within the past 3 years

[rohcti]

archie wrote:

keep those names out of this forum

Lmao

[Fovrodi]

Defeat has a good way of making you feel stuck or hypnotized. more than that it's about slow power

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM91EGKhEzM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwRxef14b1M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twd_IjAJ60o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G571tp4cev4

my biggest thing even with the MBV boot is the ren fair stretch doesn't fit with the song almost like a reverse Fickle Cycle. The patience is its most striking and beautiful quality

[muark]

archie wrote:

keep those names out of this forum

Is this some weird elitist bullshit? If so then fucking boo. All three are fantastic live, especially Osees

[hedgecore]

archie wrote:

keep those names out of this forum

It feels like every three visits I have on this forum, I slip into some stupid pretentious black hole alternate universe

[zak]

Yeah dumb take

[rohcti]

Man, you guys are coming down hard. I thought it was a joke. Either way, it's hilarious to me

[archie]

yea Soz guys I was joking but maybe it hit a sore spot

[archie]

I’ve seen a lot of ‘em come and go here u know what I mean

[destiny]

Lol i thought it was funny

[Fovrodi]

I stand with Archie

Losers need to touch...

[rohcti]

Ew we don't post about A_____ C_________ in here

[archie]

and if you didn’t join late June 2013 you’re shoving a huge grain of salt in my face every time U post. this forum has gone normie

[blindmowing]

so, uh, Defeat.

good song