[IkoOvo]

blindmowing wrote:

the questions is purely hypothetical as a way of understanding how much people value the song on its own

i think i'd throw as much as $150 at a vinyl Defeat if i knew it was the only way i'd be able to hear the studio version

ahh, in that case i would do that much too tbh, would just have to make sure i had a bit of extra spending money aside

[IkoOvo]

Hellomark wrote:

I really like the newest version of Defeat personally, but that subcarrier video kinda bugs me. Feel like they did it much better during other performances from that tour. Avey's voice feels kinda off/is mixed too loud or something.

yeah avey is a bit loud, also that one synth in the verses of the first section (btw who is that?) is too loud as well imo...
all things considered its a great document tho, ive been watching it so much and i think daves performance is pretty powerful and strange at times too

still bummed they didnt play it in portland

[captainlunatic]

what's everyone's pick for best recording of the new version? ('21-present) (something from a full show preferred i.e. not blast radio)

[onn]

god the middle section is so cool in the 2022 shows. the weird hyper exaggerated R's and almost like US southern accent is just perfect with that vocal rhythm.
not sure I understand how it works tonally with the rest of the song but it's sweet in isolation
the lyric seems like yet another placeholder to me still though

[captainlunatic]

Yeah the new middle section has grown on me a ton, it's mixed kinda weird on the Subcarrier version but on the 9:30 Club boot it's fucking perfect (along with the ending section)

[youtube]https://youtu.be/6w2nG8ZOySE[/youtube]

THERE WAS NOT A SERRRRPENT IIIIIN THE WAAAATER THE MIIIIRROR THE WHATHAAAAVE WEBEEEECOOOME

[Fovrodi]

captainlunatic wrote:

what's everyone's pick for best recording of the new version? ('21-present) (something from a full show preferred i.e. not blast radio)

Been mostly skipping it bc I don't want it to lose flavor, but NYC taper boot must be a good one?

[captainlunatic]

Fovrodi wrote:

captainlunatic wrote:

what's everyone's pick for best recording of the new version? ('21-present) (something from a full show preferred i.e. not blast radio)

Been mostly skipping it bc I don't want it to lose flavor, but NYC taper boot must be a good one?

If you mean the one from this summer, they didn't play it at that show ;_;

[Fovrodi]

Shit

[andthephantom]

Been thinking a lot about Defeat and time. Since this thread has picked up again, I've gone back and listened to all the 2022 boots, and I'm really struck by how this song forces me to slow down. The song is in no rush; you can only slow yourself down to listen to it . . . otherwise you'll lose interest. And that's such a radical act in our age of short attention spans.

In terms of the direction of the song and its structure, I love how the third section now basically slows and fades to something like death. In the recent boots, Avey is barely even whispering by the end. All four of them have sloooowed the tempo so much. I'm sure there are other examples of this. But, as the structure of a long song, it goes completely against how musicians usually structure these things. The counterpoint I'm thinking about right now is Black Country, New Road (who I really like). They have a bunch of these 8-12 minute songs. But basically all of them build up to a dramatic loud crescendo. The Stairway to Heaven song structure. Defeat is something else - the slowing down of death or sleep.

For me, this makes it weird in the concert setting. Before I went to the San Francisco show this summer, I told my non-AC-fan buddy about this brilliant 24-minute track that they'd probably play. Major hype. But then 14 minutes in he said he was gonna go get more beer - he was kinda bored. And I get it: that's not necessarily what you want in a show, especially in the middle of a show where it can totally alter the tone and pace of the songs around it. But when I listen to it alone at home and when I can slow down with it and not be in a rush, it's breathtaking.

For that reason, I think it'll be an even more powerful studio track than live song. What's gonna be especially interesting - assuming it gets on an LP and isn't released as a stand-alone - will be where it fits into the whole structure of the album. It'll do different things as a closer than it will as a lead in to, say, Genie's Open (my dream) - a track with a galloping, optimistic feel. More than anything, I'm just excited to follow whatever the band decides is "right," to puzzle through what their thinking is about what to highlight and how different/similar to make the studio version from what we've come to love so much.

Anyway: really glad this thread it active again and so jazzed for what seems like an inevitable early 2023 announcement of something.

(unrelated: anybody remember where Panda said something like, "people will really like how we did studio Defeat"?)

[IkoOvo]

yeah its so fucking good how long the song is simply because they sing it so slow

[Stan]

Outstanding post there, mate.

[IkoOvo]

also love the structure of having the faster part be super short and surrounded by large ambient chunks
like the slower parts are waayyy slower than og music box, but the faster part is faster too_ right?
structure reminds me of boredoms or like boris in some ways...

honest to god i think its my fave song of theirs since safer

[destiny]

I thnk Atlanta has to have the best capturing of the third section. They really outdid themselves there. Especially the just a frightened daughter part. It's just so fucking devastating.

the ending is also like the ending of that simpsons episode where homer's mom leaves homer again and he sits on the car

[roopn]

Thanks andthephantom... nice to read something positive about this song again. Everyone's worrying themselves into a rut on this one

[roopn]

FEEL ON1NE!!! wrote:

the ending is also like the ending of that simpsons episode where homer's mom leaves homer again and he sits on the car

[Fovrodi]

Sometimes it kills me we still don't have this song then I remember I can just listen to Joanna Newsom

[onn]

IkoOvo wrote:

yeah its so fucking good how long the song is simply because they sing it so slow

*slooooOOOOoooow

[captainlunatic]

FEEL ON1NE!!! wrote:

I thnk Atlanta has to have the best capturing of the third section. They really outdid themselves there. Especially the just a frightened daughter part. It's just so fucking devastating.

the ending is also like the ending of that simpsons episode where homer's mom leaves homer again and he sits on the car

Good call, just watched the vid, amazing all the way through

Think I noticed how creepy that organ is in the last section for the first time, sounds like prelude to a boss battle

Fuck this song just runs the gamut of emotions doesn't it

Almost at the point where I don't need a studio version anymore but I'm sure it'll be stellar

[IkoOvo]

i am in love with the legacy of all the different versions
plenty versions that are well recorded enough to document the changes

feeling like i will be pleased with studio defeat whatever it is

[Stan]

Once had a good day

[captainlunatic]

Meow Wolf is the one I keep coming back to right now

https://youtu.be/LFL6Pcz-PrI

Only thing that would make it better is the L'Rain person on sax

[tay's tee games]

Didn't realise how tiny Meow Wolf was, having listened to the boots from various years. So sick. Seeing them in a 400 cap venue these days would be insane.

[andthephantom]

Are there any versions with the L’Rain sax among the boots we have? I haven’t heard any of those.

[captainlunatic]

I think all of the ones from March (Chicago, Atlanta, Mpls, possibly Brooklyn?) have it

[captainlunatic]

Okay it's definitely not all of the ones from March because 3/16 (Starland) doesn't

The ones I mentioned above should though (not 100% on Brooklyn)

[captainlunatic]

aaaaAAAAAA LLLLITTLLLLLLE CCCHHAAAAAAANNGGEEE

[tdegenaro]

andthephantom wrote:

Are there any versions with the L’Rain sax among the boots we have? I haven’t heard any of those.

the detroit boot has the l'rain sax

[Fovrodi]

Chicago definitely does, Avey has some banter about him joining them on stage. Not sure how pronounced or which part of the song though. Too muddy to pique my curiosity

[Number 420]

I heard they named this track because they said "wow this track kicks ass what should we name it" and then someone said "the feet kicks ass" like just trying to free associate from there, to eventually get into some kind of foot related title, but everyone else misheard it as defeat and thought they were just like really assertively claiming what the song should be called and didn't push back at all but it was all just one big misunderstanding

[Avey Tane]

[tay's tee games]

Bit of a weird one but just listened to this again after what seems like a while. I know most of us will have severe demoitis from at least one of the versions of this, and I know there are many criticisms (they should've stuck with the MBV version, it's too long, the mid section is yucky etc etc), but actually giving it a bit of time again has reminded me that it sort of is... the best of the best? A truly astonishing and powerful song that can't really be compared to anything else in their cannon. However the recorded version turns out and however it's released, this song will be one of their undeniable pinnacles.

Tasty games indeed.

[Stories and Games]

informal confirmation today in the ama that music box will be probably released in full after the next record's out honestly don't think anything in the world gonna satisfy this fanbase more than just finally hearing a pro quality version of that first iteration

i'm totally resigned to and embracing the demoitis at this point, i honestly think it's better that way. i haven't really liked any changes they've made to it since 2019 and i've got my editing scissors ready to just make an ideal fanedit once everything's released. (optional blast session extended intro) -> 2019 part 1 -> 2018 part 2 -> 2019 or maybe 2022 part 3

[roopn]

planning to dislike something

[Stories and Games]

hehe should say i'm sure i'll like the studio version just fine, maybe even more than i expect to. just not gonna talk myself into preferring new elements that i don't really dig i suppose

but honestly i doubt whatever obsessive fan-edit i make will actually satisfy me in the way i want it to lmao, i'm doomed to always love the idea of defeat more than any concrete manifestation of it. comes with the territory of loving a band who workshops their material in front of a dedicated fanbase armed with recording devices. but they know exactly what they're doing, they sometimes talk about their songs as being sort of ethereal entities without definitive iterations, and avey even characterized defeat as being particularly unbounded in that way in the ama today.

it makes for a beautiful intoxicating experience on an audience level, but it's one full of quandaries; i don't really know what to do with my deep love for this ghost of a song. i've been meaning to record a piano cover of it for ages, maybe that'll exorcise it once and for all. probably healthier than fan-editing anyway

[roopn]

Of course, I know where you're coming from. Sorry for the negative response

[r_o_s_s]

I have never listened to a single version of Defeat, and I'm so excited to enjoy the studio version while everyone else is grumbling about how it was better four years ago at one specific show in wherever-America. Feels so good not to listen to boots.

[Stan]

Feels great to enjoy one of their best ever songs for the last four years.

[r_o_s_s]

That's fair - I suppose, as someone who doesn't listen to boots until the official recordings are out. It all seems to be a lot of heartbreak, disappointment, and negativity (especially when it comes to Defeat) rather than excitement and enjoyment.

[muark]

With all the talk regarding this track over the past four years, especially its iterations from Music Box --> Now, I wouldn't be surprised if they have something big in store for the studio release. Is it so out of the question that they understand people's frustrations? It's not like they could play the song in true Music Box fashion on their succeeding tours; after all, I remember Noah said something about folks being surprised when it does arrive. IDK, not saying I'll be getting my hopes up but I also don't wanna sink into a certain dismissal of possibilities or whatever. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[wilandhugs]

Music is the moment or something. Old Defeat already exists so make the new one even better. My take.