[roopn]

Fovrodi wrote:

Mastering has no aesthetic demands? that's the point? there shouldn't be any fingerprints ugh i think I'm fucking done with this forum

Ya, ingenue you must mean Marta Salogni?

[Hellomark]

I like the production personally.

[ingenue]

roopn wrote:

Fovrodi wrote:

Mastering has no aesthetic demands? that's the point? there shouldn't be any fingerprints ugh i think I'm fucking done with this forum

Ya, ingenue you must mean Marta Salogni?

Sorry, fovrodi, didn’t mean to be such a downer. I should be less critical (and not post when drinking) and look for the good in it. And, yes, roopn, oops—I meant Marta.

lhtd—I think the Starbucks analogy is close, but I’m not sure I understand the rest of what you’re saying haha

[ingenue]

Maybe because we’ve lived so long with these songs as boots—claustrophobic, muffled, imperfect boots—they just lose something in the translation to studio recordings? The talk about Crack Box is what got me thinking about Time Skiffs. I didn’t really make that connection explicit. Like, a Crack Box-esque document of the Time Skiffs era would, to me, be more interesting than the studio treatment. These songs just feel wild and woolly and weirder than the incarnations that landed on Time Skiffs. Even the album art, which might be my favorite of Avey’s, hints that the songs you’re about to listen to are collage-y and dense, homegrown, maybe musty like an old magazine.

Now I’m thinking of Johnny Greenwood’s comment to Thom Yorke about how he wished there were “more mistakes” or room for more mistakes in their recordings. Maybe as you get more popular certain aesthetics and mixing decisions are harder to sell? I get that.

[Fovrodi]

ingenue wrote:

(and not post when drinking)

Ditto! Sorry I reacted so severely.

[ingenue]

Fovrodi wrote:

ingenue wrote:

(and not post when drinking)

Ditto! Sorry I reacted so severely.

All good. I love the passion of this place, even the criticism. Because I’m definitely not getting the chance to have these conversations with anyone outside of this forum. I can take the heat. I want to be more charitable going forward though. AC is one of my favorite bands—they are nonpareil magicians and their art moves me in so many ways. Even when I don’t agree with their mixing decisions. Guess I’ve got the between-LPs blues.

[blindmowing]

i definitely prefer raw, gritty, colorful production. exposed ceilings and unvarnished interiors, bare wires or at least a garish paint job. on the most obvious, reductive level i do prefer lo-fi and analog recordings to hi-fi or digital, but even within a more polished job like ACs 2010s output, they were pretty wacky with their production, and the shine of the production allowed the colours to really pop and the textures to really surprise.

AC is obviously super intentional with production techniques and i believe the clean dream of TS was exactly what they were going for, but it does make for their least interesting record to listen to from an aesthetic standpoint. that's saying a lot, however, because it's still more interesting to listen to than 90% of indie records. usually their records can hang with the genius weirdos in the experimental scenes with some of their artistic choices, but TS is by far their most accessible and straight-laced record to date.

i know TS2 is gonna be really hairy. that's what's making this wait that much more unbearable. there's always one big sonic shift in between studio albums, and this one is going to give us whiplash in the best way.

[Stan]

I don't really understand how they can make TS2 sound remarkably different from TS1. They're the same batch of songs. Genuinely don't know what they will do apart from make it more swampy and ambient or something. It's also an odd batch of songs remaining. Defeat and Magicians are nothing like each other and nothing like everything else. Sea of Light sounds different again. I don't know what I'm saying really, just trying to avoid the agony of the cricket World Cup final.

[roopn]

Stan wrote:

just trying to avoid the agony of the cricket World Cup final.

Lol I'm currently in the crowds on the train coming home from that game.

Best they can do for lp2 get the tone dialed the fuck in, get everything sounding warm and toasty, and make it sound live. It'll be their 'analogue' album, and maybe that doesn't seem too exciting compared to their more 'otherworldly' album experiences, but if they pull it off I'm psyched

[denjanenna]

i wish i understood cricket enough to watch it

[wilandhugs]

Stan wrote:

I don't really understand how they can make TS2 sound remarkably different from TS1. They're the same batch of songs. Genuinely don't know what they will do apart from make it more swampy and ambient or something. It's also an odd batch of songs remaining. Defeat and Magicians are nothing like each other and nothing like everything else. Sea of Light sounds different again. I don't know what I'm saying really, just trying to avoid the agony of the cricket World Cup final.

Yeah, for real. I think, if I'm not wrong, youre kinda saying the production tended to match the songs pretty whelm, and with the songs being of the same batch, itd be hard for them to effectively change the production radically. Obviously they're going with some different techniques courtesy of those freebirds from last winter, so my guess is maybe just a bit more tapey and yeah swampier er? Skiffs was already pretty warm to me,.

[headroom)))]

roopn wrote:

for lp2 get the tone dialed the fuck in, get everything sounding warm and toasty... if they pull it off I'm psyched

Yes! Listening to D'angelo and Soulquarian stuff from that era to get in the zone. I wanna hear some dirty drum and bass like 1000 Deaths. I can totally see them nail a sweet slow jam like Brown Sugar too. I don't know, I grew up on these RnB songs on the radio, so I'm extra hyped/curious for how Russell Elevado recorded them.

I hear where these complaints on the mixes are coming from, but I personally think the aim of this album was to sound "soothing" to bring some relief to a Covid/quarantining world and that probably directed some of the decisions on the songs. I'm a big fan of wild AC, but there are moments that are pretty subtle but kinda super interesting when you hone in on them. Like the hyper focus on the guitar bend sounds in the beginning of SWE and the immediate hit into the verse. Ultimately, I can put this album on and still feel really good about the songs that I like and how they sound.

Over the years, I've come to the opinion that Live AC >>>>>>>>> Album AC >> most everything else I listen to. But the blessing is that you get all these variations of great songs. The album versions are not the final versions. As great of a song that Laughing Hieroglyphic is, the 2011 Knitting Factory version where Avey is screaming his lungs out, will always be the definitive version for me, until he flips it again in a cool way.

denjanenna wrote:

i wish i understood cricket enough to watch it

Same, I think it's awesome they take a tea break tho. I also like when tennis players yell at the referee that's 10ft higher than them and then have to sit in a tiny chair next to them. Reminds me of 3rd grade temper tantrums.

[Fovrodi]

Stan wrote:

I don't really understand how they can make TS2 sound remarkably different from TS1.

I am picturing (sounding?) the same difference between Strawberry Jam and Merriweather Post Pavilion. MPP had an even more stripped down setup but fuller sound? Dynamic range, IDK I am very much a layman to this stuff. I'm just hoping they really maximalize in every area that counts. I'm also hoping being in person really freed up their mental CPU to record the hell out of this material. TS must've been a marathon, maybe not a crawl to the finish line but a struggle nonetheless

[blindmowing]

+1 Fov.

---

i want a studio version / cleaned up live version of MPP-era Who Could Win A Rabbit

[headroom)))]

blindmowing wrote:

i want a studio version / cleaned up live version of MPP-era Who Could Win A Rabbit

The 2009 Henry Miller Big Sur boot has an excellent sounding version. Also a sublimely trance inducing jam on Guys Eyes.

Spoiler: show

wrote:

2009-05-27
Henry Miller Memorial Library, Big Sur, CA, USA
1. #1
2. Comfy in Nautica
3. Who Could Win a Rabbit
4. Summertime Clothes
5. My Girls
6. Bleed
7. What Would I Want? Sky
8. Guys Eyes
9. Fireworks
10. Brother Sport
11. Also Frightened
12. Daily Routine
13. No More Runnin
https://www.mediafire.com/?5k8z3uciubbwi7u

[blindmowing]

thank you! i was listening to Ballet Slippers today and was pretty disappointed again by the quality

[headroom)))]

^ For sure!
Yeah, gotta agree Ballet Slippers was a let down. Def not the shows or takes I would pick. Cool packaging on the record but..... I would've much rather had an insert with some more writing on that era. I liked reading Rev Green's notes, but with no words from the boys kinda felt like the band wasn't even involved that much in the release.

Also, the BBC recording of What Would I Want? Sky is the definitive one for me. Those drums are dirty AF, and Avey's delayed vocals are perfectly in time. Perfect hazy, stoned and vibing out with the air song.

[dansemanatee]

It’s kind of insane that they put out a $56 3lp vinyl of live stuff from 2009 and they didn’t put chocolate girl or slippi on it. that strawberry gems collection is a lot better.

not just saying this because i was there, but they should totally do a live album from the skiffs/skiffs 2 era after the album comes out. would be a cool way to bridge the two together and it would be great to have those versions of bluish and unsolved mysteries and stuff. if they end up trimming defeat for the album they can put the long version on the live album and it would be like that 20 minutes lablakely dress/fireworks from ballet slippers but i wouldn’t get bored halfway through.

[preakness]

dansemanatee wrote:

It’s kind of insane that they put out a $56 3lp vinyl of live stuff from 2009 and they didn’t put chocolate girl or slippi on it. that strawberry gems collection is a lot better.

not just saying this because i was there, but they should totally do a live album from the skiffs/skiffs 2 era after the album comes out. would be a cool way to bridge the two together and it would be great to have those versions of bluish and unsolved mysteries and stuff. if they end up trimming defeat for the album they can put the long version on the live album and it would be like that 20 minutes lablakely dress/fireworks from ballet slippers but i wouldn’t get bored halfway through.

Big agree. Live album would be perfect bridge between skiffs1+2. I also was surprised by some of the track selections on ballet slippers. I guess the band hears certain performances differently than fans do. And as much as they should, they don’t have a custodian of live boots like the dead did (Dick Latvala’s picks were always great shows), other than me and a few other booter/archivists disconnected from the band on youtube

[Fovrodi]

On that note check out a rare (first!) two hour OBrien system that is all Pavement boots. Compiled by Geo and Avey.

https://www.nts.live/shows/geologist/ep ... ember-2022

[Jam]

really read that as cornpilled at first

[coral lord]

came here just to say that i have been on a massive pavement kick for like a year now and getting into boots, so of course the boys come through with a god tier playlist for us. lots of fantastic wowee zowee tracks on there.

[jfw7]

it's a really good mix, i am not a pavement listener really but the picks are super well thought out. i had always sort of disregarded the connection between AC and pavement but you hear things in the transitions and looser moments for sure

[cody]

they should have reverend green compile their live albums from now on, for the lore

I'm digging this pavement mix more than I expected. it's surreal imagining young avey/geo obsessing over these in the same way we do over their live stuff

[opposite field]

jfw7 wrote:

it's a really good mix, i am not a pavement listener really but the picks are super well thought out. i had always sort of disregarded the connection between AC and pavement but you hear things in the transitions and looser moments for sure

Totally, I always thought Avey really aped a lot of his weird vocal noises from Malkmus but unless you're a deep fan of both it's hard to hear the connection. I had so much fun listening to this mix, the quality is better than I expected. Wish they talked about any of the songs. I love both bands, AC is one of the big the reasons I got into Pavement.

[dansemanatee]

opposite field wrote:

jfw7 wrote:

it's a really good mix, i am not a pavement listener really but the picks are super well thought out. i had always sort of disregarded the connection between AC and pavement but you hear things in the transitions and looser moments for sure

Totally, I always thought Avey really aped a lot of his weird vocal noises from Malkmus but unless you're a deep fan of both it's hard to hear the connection. I had so much fun listening to this mix, the quality is better than I expected. Wish they talked about any of the songs. I love both bands, AC is one of the big the reasons I got into Pavement.

yea it took me awhile to hear the influence but you can definitely hear it in the vocals on the boots. that version of gold soundz with the drawn out instrumental break reminded me of the live version of golden gal.

[headroom)))]

Pavement mix is sick. Caught them twice on this tour, and they were suuppeerr good. I've seen solo Malk a few times, but the energy in the playing and bg visuals on this tour were amazing. Big fan of them from high school before I ever listened to AC, and am LOVING that Geo/Avey took the time to compile this mix. Great version of In the Mouth.
There's so many great full sets of early 90 shows on youtube (Khyber Pass 1992 is a favorite, Gary's drumming is explosive) getting my 90s nostalgia fix for sure.
Also, how could they never record this gem?!

[Fovrodi]

I heard a little bit of Pavement radio sessions but really looking forward to going on this trip. I had always kind of assumed Pavement was a springboard or a gateway band (p sure Josh described them that way once) for them than a direct influence. Like Paddington Band EP sealed that theory in my head. Frankly I heard more Modest Mouse influences at times than Pavement. Cobwebs "They blocked the path that was connecting you and me/it's a sticky case the more I move the less I'm free" strikes me very Isaac Brock to me. Hell, Street Flash could be a future mutant Moon & Antarctica track

[wilandhugs]

Fovrodi wrote:

I heard a little bit of Pavement radio sessions but really looking forward to going on this trip. I had always kind of assumed Pavement was a springboard or a gateway band (p sure Josh described them that way once) for them than a direct influence. Like Paddington Band EP sealed that theory in my head. Frankly I heard more Modest Mouse influences at times than Pavement. Cobwebs "They blocked the path that was connecting you and me/it's a sticky case the more I move the less I'm free" strikes me very Isaac Brock to me. Hell, Street Flash could be a future mutant Moon & Antarctica track

Did they ever reveal a connection to MM? I always felt the same way. Something about Build Nothing and it's paradoxicalness and how coherent and diverse it is always struck me as so AC. One of my favorite bands besides AC and Brock's lyrics always struck me as similar to Avey's, and I've always felt like Brock's writing is pretty similar to Andy Partridge from XTC in a strange way, whom I see as super proto AC.

Just to add more to the MM comparison, I think All Night Diner and A Life of Arctic Sounds are so AC for some reason

[Daffy Duck]

Did anyone record the whole SiriusXM stream? Would love to hear bluish in HQ

[roopn]

wilandhugs wrote:

Fovrodi wrote:

I heard a little bit of Pavement radio sessions but really looking forward to going on this trip. I had always kind of assumed Pavement was a springboard or a gateway band (p sure Josh described them that way once) for them than a direct influence. Like Paddington Band EP sealed that theory in my head. Frankly I heard more Modest Mouse influences at times than Pavement. Cobwebs "They blocked the path that was connecting you and me/it's a sticky case the more I move the less I'm free" strikes me very Isaac Brock to me. Hell, Street Flash could be a future mutant Moon & Antarctica track

Did they ever reveal a connection to MM? I always felt the same way. Something about Build Nothing and it's paradoxicalness and how coherent and diverse it is always struck me as so AC. One of my favorite bands besides AC and Brock's lyrics always struck me as similar to Avey's, and I've always felt like Brock's writing is pretty similar to Andy Partridge from XTC in a strange way, whom I see as super proto AC.

Just to add more to the MM comparison, I think All Night Diner and A Life of Arctic Sounds are so AC for some reason

wow do I need to listen to modest mouse? literally never paid them any heed whatsoever

[ingenue]

Fovrodi and wilandhugs—cool to hear your ideas about Modest Mouse and the possible influence on AC. I think it’s 100% possible. Deak in his MM t-shirt in that infamous photo from high school days. And the two groups did come of age at a similar time. Modest Mouse was maybe more traditional in their instrumentation, but conceptually and structurally they were just as innovative as AC I’d argue. Brock, like Avey, is in a league of his own on those first few records, lyrically. Building Nothing Out of Something—sunnuvabitch. I live in the NW so maybe it’s hard to understand if you aren’t from here, but that record—all of those early MM records, really—captured the ineffable.

[wilandhugs]

roopn wrote:

wilandhugs wrote:

Fovrodi wrote:

I heard a little bit of Pavement radio sessions but really looking forward to going on this trip. I had always kind of assumed Pavement was a springboard or a gateway band (p sure Josh described them that way once) for them than a direct influence. Like Paddington Band EP sealed that theory in my head. Frankly I heard more Modest Mouse influences at times than Pavement. Cobwebs "They blocked the path that was connecting you and me/it's a sticky case the more I move the less I'm free" strikes me very Isaac Brock to me. Hell, Street Flash could be a future mutant Moon & Antarctica track

Did they ever reveal a connection to MM? I always felt the same way. Something about Build Nothing and it's paradoxicalness and how coherent and diverse it is always struck me as so AC. One of my favorite bands besides AC and Brock's lyrics always struck me as similar to Avey's, and I've always felt like Brock's writing is pretty similar to Andy Partridge from XTC in a strange way, whom I see as super proto AC.

Just to add more to the MM comparison, I think All Night Diner and A Life of Arctic Sounds are so AC for some reason

wow do I need to listen to modest mouse? literally never paid them any heed whatsoever

Their first 3 albums are some of the best 'rock' of the 90's, and Good News is a great album with wider appeal. My favorites from their 90s run are their B sides though, Interstate 8 is one of my all time favorite songs

Also, the NW connection definitely helps, but I grew up in the north east and the appeal is still heavy. Brock's idea of Americana should not be overlooked

One of my favorite lines, that feels like a super askew avey line:

"She was going with the cinematographer
Everyone knew he was really a pornographer
They went down to the dance and grind
And everybody was feeling fine"

[ingenue]

“A nice heart and a white suit and a baby blue sedan
And I am doing the best that I can
All the eunuchs, they were standing in rows singing,
‘Please stud us out just as fast as you possibly can.’
Sad song, last dance and no one knows who the band was
And Henry, you danced like a wooden Indian.”

[Fovrodi]

Here's one source

One last question—when you were in high school with these guys, did you ever imagine that you could make your living off music, that you'd still be doing this now?

Deakin: Yes and no. On some level, Noah and I always joked about this over the years. We would think about bands that we looked up to, like Modest Mouse or early Stereolab, and knew that they sort of travelled around in a van, and we'd say "God, can you imagine how cool that would be?!" We kind of hit that point and surpassed it a long time ago. That was the high school dream: can you imagine getting in a van and touring the country and playing music, that sounds great!

https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainmen ... ool-dreams

[KidEatsKeyboard]

Long Distance Drunk has always felt like a Sung Tongs track to me.

[blindmowing]

KidEatsKeyboard wrote:

Long Distance Drunk has always felt like a Sung Tongs track to me.

Huh. Never thought of that before, but thinking about it makes perfect sense.

On/off topic, Lonesome Crowded West and Building Nothing out of Something are two of my very favorite albums from the 90s.

---

I'm excited for 2023. Feels like it's just so full of potential for the AC-sphere. I know TS2 material is old news, but I think they'll try really hard to make it feel like a new chapter, or at least its own very specific unique era. I hope they get creative with how they unveil the tunes.

[coral lord]

roopn wrote:

wilandhugs wrote:

Fovrodi wrote:

I heard a little bit of Pavement radio sessions but really looking forward to going on this trip. I had always kind of assumed Pavement was a springboard or a gateway band (p sure Josh described them that way once) for them than a direct influence. Like Paddington Band EP sealed that theory in my head. Frankly I heard more Modest Mouse influences at times than Pavement. Cobwebs "They blocked the path that was connecting you and me/it's a sticky case the more I move the less I'm free" strikes me very Isaac Brock to me. Hell, Street Flash could be a future mutant Moon & Antarctica track

Did they ever reveal a connection to MM? I always felt the same way. Something about Build Nothing and it's paradoxicalness and how coherent and diverse it is always struck me as so AC. One of my favorite bands besides AC and Brock's lyrics always struck me as similar to Avey's, and I've always felt like Brock's writing is pretty similar to Andy Partridge from XTC in a strange way, whom I see as super proto AC.

Just to add more to the MM comparison, I think All Night Diner and A Life of Arctic Sounds are so AC for some reason

wow do I need to listen to modest mouse? literally never paid them any heed whatsoever

yes. 100%.

listen to everything that came out in the 90s because it's all perfect.

[wilandhugs]

Fovrodi wrote:

Here's one source

One last question—when you were in high school with these guys, did you ever imagine that you could make your living off music, that you'd still be doing this now?

Deakin: Yes and no. On some level, Noah and I always joked about this over the years. We would think about bands that we looked up to, like Modest Mouse or early Stereolab, and knew that they sort of travelled around in a van, and we'd say "God, can you imagine how cool that would be?!" We kind of hit that point and surpassed it a long time ago. That was the high school dream: can you imagine getting in a van and touring the country and playing music, that sounds great!

https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainmen ... ool-dreams

Definitely makes you realize they must've been a pretty strong influence in a way, if they were that big of fans that early on. Really wonder what they would say retrospectively

[ingenue]

Interesting to think too that critically everything from This Is a Long Drive thru Good News is largely considered their best work, even though the records that have come after have sold millions and made them Top 40 radio kings. I wonder if there will be a similar demarcation for AC. A line where all the heads are like, “Those early albums are perfect. Everything sucks after _________.”