[tay's tee games]

After about six months with this thing, here are my thoughts as they currently stand.

It's a great album. Not classic era great, but really lovely. Solid songs back to front, impressively put together, not too much sheen but not at all messy. Still haven't clicked with R&D but from the early boots it always felt like it was going to more of a live wishy washy vibe. The ambient passages throughout are stellar to me. Was initially disappointed with the mix and vocal delivery on DS compared to the boots but I think it's top tier now. Still not massively happy with some of the mixing choices or the outro (compared to the live outro) of Car Keys, also love the stank Panda puts on the live vocals but sort of knew they wouldn't come off like that on record. Prester was my favourite going into this and still is, alongside Strung. WGB was the biggest pleasant surprise for me - never was massive on Boulder but really dig what they did with it. Passerby has always been a bit of a miss for me and I've never fully understood the hype around it but it's still nice. Can anybody explain why it's one of their favourites? Walker started to make sense as a single and I like it a lot more than the one boot (and a lot more than when I first heard the single) but it's not top tier for me. Cherokee has grown on me a lot and might be the most vital song of the lot in a weird way - my favourite outro jam as well, reminds me a lot of Turn Into Something.

Almost the best thing for me about this was the hype around the rollout. Everyone seemed to know the boots back to front, everyone was waiting day by day for word from on high. Consuming and deconstructing every review or article piece by piece, trying to decipher what the recordings might have changed from the boots. It was special. What's more special to me though is what's to come - I can't say I was disappointed as such, but when the tracklist came together for Skiffs it was immediately obvious that my favourites of the era were mostly not there. Defeat, Magicians, Genies, Stride, Kings, and more and more BZ and G&I (never loved Soul Capturer but it's better now than 2021 imo).

Which brings me to Kings. Seems generally like it's most people's least or second least favourite from the Skiffs 2 batch. I don't get that at all - apart from feeling overly long to some (which I kinda feel is a cheap College comparison because it's their only other acapella song really) what's everyone's beef with it? Of the '19 boots it was easily my favourite non-Music Box revamp. It feels magical and enchanted to me. A seriously mesmerising display of their abilities to three-way harmonise, which haven't ever been on show in a live setting.

Final thought: bring back Cecil.

[Hellomark]

In defense of Passer-by, I will say that the 2019 version is still one of, if not the best thing to come out of this whole era, and just straight up one of the best things they've done. It was just something about the pitch effect on Avey's voice, and the way the keyboard and drums just gradually crept up in the mix as that last section went on. Just pure magic. 05-07 era magic. I don't think I'll ever totally understand some of the choices they made when recording the studio version, but that's just the way it goes.

[opposite field]

tay's tee games wrote:

Which brings me to Kings. Seems generally like it's most people's least or second least favourite from the Skiffs 2 batch. I don't get that at all - apart from feeling overly long to some (which I kinda feel is a cheap College comparison because it's their only other acapella song really) what's everyone's beef with it? Of the '19 boots it was easily my favourite non-Music Box revamp. It feels magical and enchanted to me. A seriously mesmerising display of their abilities to three-way harmonise, which haven't ever been on show in a live setting.

Final thought: bring back Cecil.

I think the tiny desk King's is sounding great and it feels like almost a callback to like Danse/Ark era more than anything else they've done since. People saying it should be shorter are wrong! I love that it makes people uncomfortable, another hallmark of the early era at least as far as I can tell from what I know since I wasn't actually there. Skiffs sounds great, but is a pretty mellow and straightforward record, the weird needs to come back a bit and hopefully will on this next batch of songs with stuff like King's Walk in the mix.

[Fovrodi]

would've made a good pre-amble to Cherokee no?

[tay's tee games]

Hellomark wrote:

In defense of Passer-by, I will say that the 2019 version is still one of, if not the best thing to come out of this whole era, and just straight up one of the best things they've done. It was just something about the pitch effect on Avey's voice, and the way the keyboard and drums just gradually crept up in the mix as that last section went on. Just pure magic. 05-07 era magic. I don't think I'll ever totally understand some of the choices they made when recording the studio version, but that's just the way it goes.

Yeah this is what confuses me I guess. I know everybody's stance on it but feel like I'm just not hearing anything so dramatically different that it goes from the best of the best to the not so amazing. Like I prefer the harmonies and the pace of the latter part of the '19 version but that's sort of it. I realise I'm in a minority here, so not trying to convince anyone otherwise, just trying to get some perspective.

[Stan]

It's a different melody and delivery.

[Tropic]

OG was perfect and sometimes they don't allow that

[roopn]

To be clear I like kings and don't think they should change it. I just understand that it's challenging and feels long

2019 passerby felt bigger than defeat to me. New one is good too but essentially incomparable. It is what it is

The only lingering disappointment I have with skiffs is this - aside from car keys and walker, noah really sounds like he's holding back with his vocals. Making room for his brothers no doubt, but I miss his chest voice.
Also Prester needed to sound sadder heh. Alright enough complaining now I'm done

[rohcti]

Yeah old Passerby is so much better, but studio version is still pretty good and gets me in a different way. I said "wtf" in my head the first time I heard the "bumped a passerby" part. It just lacks the emotional gut punch of the original, esp since it's also missing the "if I had some kerosene" part for lyrics that are almost unintelligible. And the stuff that Hellomark mentioned. It gives me similar vibes to Avey's Cows solo stuff, where songs like Sew Happy went from ethereal electronic soundscapes to plucky, cute songs like HORS_ or Mayan that don't stick in your head for very long

[Fovrodi]

Very much feels in the vein of "Eyes on Eyes" to me

[Hellomark]

There's a new interview on World Cafe where Noah says that Cherokee is his favorite song on the album and one of his favorite songs Dave has ever written. Cherokee gang rise up.

[roopn]

Hellomark wrote:

There's a new interview on World Cafe where Noah says that Cherokee is his favorite song on the album and one of his favorite songs Dave has ever written. Cherokee gang rise up.

thanks for the heads up! here's a link, I think it's the right one https://www.npr.org/sections/world-cafe ... world-cafe
says there's a recording of three songs from onion transfer PA too

[Slippi's Applesauce]

Great interview. Love hearing them go into that kind of depth about songs. Also highest quality performance of Genies we have yet!

I really hope that the next batch of songs isn’t released as a few singles. I feel like most of those tracks are begging to be on an album of some sort

[andthephantom]

Dave sounded a lot more uncertain than I expected about the shape the new batch of songs will take.

[evan6032]

Great recordings on that. Really surprised to hear that they don’t have more of a plan. It’s a little concerning. I feel like these are some of the best songs of their career and really defining for the era, I would love to see them get the status of being on a record. Regardless I’ll enjoy them in whatever form they’re put out into the world and it can’t come soon enough

[Hellomark]

I mean at the very least it sounds like we're getting an album no matter what, just a matter of whether or not every song will be on it. I feel like they probably just haven't decided what to do with Defeat yet lol.

[yoyoyoyoy]

I know that 20 min on a single side of an LP is not up to their fidelity standards, but how bout a 40ish min EP of studio Defeat on one side and Music Box Defeat on the other? They did it with People!
Then everything else on a LP.

[Tropic]

Def beginning to think we'll get an EP and then Defeat will be its own thing, with at least one song left on the cutting room floor.

I feel like they might not want to release another album this era? Like right at the end of the touring before splitting up for solo stuff.

[lhtd]

roopn wrote:

Hellomark wrote:

There's a new interview on World Cafe where Noah says that Cherokee is his favorite song on the album and one of his favorite songs Dave has ever written. Cherokee gang rise up.

thanks for the heads up! here's a link, I think it's the right one https://www.npr.org/sections/world-cafe ... world-cafe
says there's a recording of three songs from onion transfer PA too

Damn. This is great. Anyone able to rip these songs?

[corrie]

Defeat simply must be on an LP and I can accept nothing less I am sorry, it is maybe their best song ever and I know safer was a peacebone B side but I can't see them do that to themselves again please for the love of god

[Slippi's Applesauce]

Avey said it was important to him that defeat made an album and “he couldn’t see it any other way” or something, so I doubt that’s the one tripping them up. It’s probably Broke/Gem and I/Soul Cap

[Fovrodi]

With how much it's been in rotation on these tours I don't see any way it's left off

[tay's tee games]

Gotta be the best live recordings of this era. Here's hoping for a Union Transfer bandcamp drop.

It's hard to imagine this saga's defining song not being on an album but like corrie said... It happened to Safer... If you think about the other seven track lengths (plus another jam not played live yet and/or sundown with cecil) that could make a standard AC album length, so in a way I can see Defeat being a standalone thing for the sake of not having an album with like five songs on it.

[Fritz]

Damn these recordings sound nice… just my two cents…. Fritz out

[dio]

Slippi's Applesauce wrote:

Great interview. Love hearing them go into that kind of depth about songs. Also highest quality performance of Genies we have yet!

I really hope that the next batch of songs isn’t released as a few singles. I feel like most of those tracks are begging to be on an album of some sort

Ok I have not listened to this interview yet but I for sure wouldn't worry about an album not being in the works.... I don't know what it was verbatim but at the Kansas show last week Avey at one point said something like "We have a new record coming out (soon?)" or something to that effect. So yeah I mean its happening. Anyway, I need to listen to this interview

also, rad that Panda's fave is Cherokee.

That and Broke Zodiac are my favorite new live songs atm... got to hear Cherokee like 4x this year, seems like its pretty much every show. Only heard Broke once tho and it was soo sooo sick.

[captainlunatic]

Hellomark wrote:

There's a new interview on World Cafe where Noah says that Cherokee is his favorite song on the album and one of his favorite songs Dave has ever written. Cherokee gang rise up.

[Tropic]

Music box + bridge to quiet > time skiffs imo

[roopn]

yoyoyoyoy wrote:

how bout a 40ish min EP of studio Defeat on one side and Music Box Defeat on the other? They did it with People!
Then everything else on a LP.

If a non-album release happens, I feel this would be the way to go.

[tdegenaro]

i think i over did it listening to time skiffs when it came out, any spectacular tour boots ppl recommend to try to get excited about it again? i kinda memory-holed the album for myself

[roopn]

I really liked the recent beacham show - recorded on a phone so not the best audio quality, but really great dynamic setlist and super good energy all the way through.

I realise looking at it now there's only 4 actual skiffs songs there but the era's sound is still present across the board

[coral lord]

Tropic wrote:

Music box + bridge to quiet > time skiffs imo

MB Defeat makes almost any comparison unfair

[Tropic]

Talking about the officially released Music Box thing

[captainlunatic]

tbh i can see myself coming back to this album the most of their discography

[dio]

I'm actually slightly embarrassed by how much I've wanted to come back to this thing, and do. And then I enjoy it a lot and I don't feel bad for not listening to something new.

Idk something about the playing and instrumental stuff and how its so close to what they do live... its like a fantastic document of a fantastic live era to me. It just makes me think of the shows and good times and vibes and communal enjoyment

[Stan]

Can't understand why you would ever feel embarrassed for listening to anything you enjoy.

I still never really understood your point about not listening to their older music which seemingly affected you more. I may be misremembering the reason but it made me feel like you should just fuck off whatever other factors affect what you enjoy listening to.

[dio]

its not that deep its just sometimes im like "shouldnt i be exploring more new music that i never heard before" and i've listened to Skiffs like.... 72 times this year maybe. It really does own in the car.

and remember i overcame that 2nd thing! I had a great time revisiting Spirit/Danse and Ark last like winter, it was sweet. Campfire and Hollindagain tho? idk them...

[evan6032]

This album seems to have staying power, I’ve revisited it a few times lately, them being on tour and boots coming has me in AC mode really anticipating new projects from them. I also always thought of this as a fall record, maybe because we first heard these songs in fall 2019. Looking forward to listening to this on a cool fall evening and enjoying it

[rohcti]

dio wrote:

its not that deep its just sometimes im like "shouldnt i be exploring more new music that i never heard before" and i've listened to Skiffs like.... 72 times this year maybe. It really does own in the car.

Haha yeah this describes me as well. I need to branch out a little more. I mostly just listen to the first half over and over again

[roopn]

rohcti wrote:

dio wrote:

its not that deep its just sometimes im like "shouldnt i be exploring more new music that i never heard before" and i've listened to Skiffs like.... 72 times this year maybe. It really does own in the car.

Haha yeah this describes me as well. I need to branch out a little more. I mostly just listen to the first half over and over again

Eh I think people fail to acknowledge how hard it is to actually engage in new music all the time. Sometimes I'm in that zone but mostly I'm just picking from a handful of recent stuff I've been enjoying. We can't all be Tap!

[coral lord]

This album is coming back in a big way for me right now. PJ was a victim of being overplayed at release but now i'm pretty happy going start to finish without feeling any desire to skip a song. It's a really great release, even the songs I wasn't crazy about during the boot era hit for me.