[tay's tee games]

I don't suppose anybody knows what gear Avey is using in the first section? I can see him fiddling with something but can't quite figure out what it is

[opposite field]

tay's tee games wrote:

I don't suppose anybody knows what gear Avey is using in the first section? I can see him fiddling with something but can't quite figure out what it is

Elektron octatrack I think. Maybe a digitakt but definitely an Elektron box. He's been using Elektron stuff since Down There.

[tay's tee games]

opposite field wrote:

tay's tee games wrote:

I don't suppose anybody knows what gear Avey is using in the first section? I can see him fiddling with something but can't quite figure out what it is

Elektron octatrack I think. Maybe a digitakt but definitely an Elektron box. He's been using Elektron stuff since Down There.

Oh right on thank you. I wonder which bits are him and which bits are Geo & Deak (who I assume are both playing their Nords)

[rohcti]

Seeing Avey just absolutely pouring his soul into this song in the 930 club recording is beyond words

[captainlunatic]

need a studio version so bad lol

[Cooper]

I’m almost skeptical that this song will be better in studio. The length and journey of it are so tied to the act of performing it. How can they possibly pick a definitive level of reverb, the right textures, transitions etc. to define this song in perpetuity? its evolution over the years is integral to it

[Fovrodi]

They're gonna Purple Rain this piece

[tealtimes]

rohcti wrote:

Seeing Avey just absolutely pouring his soul into this song in the 930 club recording is beyond words

broke my "no more Defeat boots" rule for this, absolutely worth it, thanks rohcti. I hope they release this show officially

[archie]

tay's tee games wrote:

opposite field wrote:

tay's tee games wrote:

I don't suppose anybody knows what gear Avey is using in the first section? I can see him fiddling with something but can't quite figure out what it is

Elektron octatrack I think. Maybe a digitakt but definitely an Elektron box. He's been using Elektron stuff since Down There.

Oh right on thank you. I wonder which bits are him and which bits are Geo & Deak (who I assume are both playing their Nords)

hey man
figured it out hes using a digitakt on thiis set up in the pitchfork live vid

[blindmowing]

still so curious what they did to the song to make it work with vinyl...

what are people's thoughts? did they cut it down to 18 minutes so that it fits on one side? if not, where are they going to "cut the song" for the vinyl?

[wilandhugs]

blindmowing wrote:

still so curious what they did to the song to make it work with vinyl...

what are people's thoughts? did they cut it down to 18 minutes so that it fits on one side? if not, where are they going to "cut the song" for the vinyl?

I feel pretty positive they lopped it to fit one side. The song was already not that much longer than 18 minutes, and it could totally be timed that way considering intro/outro jams

[roopn]

You can fit more that 18 minutes on a side easy peasy. 24-25mins might be pushing the limit but I don't think the song's ever been that long

[blindmowing]

roopn wrote:

You can fit more that 18 minutes on a side easy peasy. 24-25mins might be pushing the limit but I don't think the song's ever been that long

well, ya, i guess i was thinking from an audiophile's POV, which i kinda assumed might be the angle AC goes about thinking about it.

sure, you CAN fit 25 minutes of music on one side, but not without sound degradation when you're getting past the 20-ish minute mark of the side. 18 minutes is the standard "no loss in sound quality" marker for vinyl, hence why i used that benchmark. AC seem to have been quite concerned about avoiding that territory for their studio albums, which is why i bring it up.

i just looked it up, and apparently it's around the 24 minute mark that most people can start to tell there's been a decrease in sound quality... and ya, i guess Defeat won't be that long, so they're in the clear for this to fit comfortably on one side if that's in their comfort-level of sound quality.

i just think about their studio albums since they've been with Domino... they have favored going with 2xLP even with a few of the records that could've fit on single LPs and i would only hazard to guess it's because they've really wanted to avoid any songs being closer to the center of the record........... i could nerd out and do the calculations, but even taking a glance at the album lengths and then dividing by 4 would give a general idea of what they've been favoring....

Feels - 52 mins / 4 sides = 13 mins
SJ - 44 mins / 4 = 11 mins
MPP - 55 / 4 = 14 mins
CHz - 54 / 4 = 14 mins
PW - 41 / 2 = 20 mins
TR - 53 / 4 = 13 mins
TS - 47 / 4 = 12 mins

just made me wonder....... how much -- if any -- consideration did they put into Defeat's length with this vinyl conundrum in mind?

[rohcti]

seacrimes wrote:

rohcti wrote:

Seeing Avey just absolutely pouring his soul into this song in the 930 club recording is beyond words

broke my "no more Defeat boots" rule for this, absolutely worth it, thanks rohcti. I hope they release this show officially

Hell yeah brother

We're gonna be 80, reminiscing about the '22 boot of Defeat lol. I can't stop listening!

[Tropic]

Defeat will be sub 20 mins 100%

Reckon 16/17

[IkoOvo]

STAY GROUNDED LIKE THAAAAAAAA SPRUUUuuuUUUuUUUCE

still holding out for 20 mins, but i know in my heart it prolly wont happen

[Slippi's Applesauce]

I don’t see how it could be under 19 mins without tempo changes or shortening parts. I mean the instrumental intro is usually only like 2 minutes, if that

[blindmowing]

Tropic wrote:

Defeat will be sub 20 mins 100%

Reckon 16/17

i'd be okay with that

[Fovrodi]

I see them going Brothersport/Jimmy Mack re: just getting started

[Tropic]

Slippi's Applesauce wrote:

I don’t see how it could be under 19 mins without tempo changes or shortening parts. I mean the instrumental intro is usually only like 2 minutes, if that

Defeat bit will be good bit shorter I'd say. It'll pop right in and out of the middle section too I reckon

[Tropic]

Violence springs... innocence tooOOoOOOoOOOoOOoooooo

[Stan]

We were the good news (in 2007)

[MFpotus]

Stan wrote:

We were the good news (in 2007)

Lmao I always took it to mean this

[onebraineno]

If they release it as an EP with 2/3 other songs on the other side at what point does it become a small album's worth of material? Down There was very short but that fit very well with the songs that were on it. What does an LP or an EP even mean any more?

[Stan]

EP would be a shit idea, ridiculous.

[blindmowing]

onebraineno wrote:

If they release it as an EP with 2/3 other songs on the other side at what point does it become a small album's worth of material? Down There was very short but that fit very well with the songs that were on it. What does an LP or an EP even mean any more?

Certain artists approach the LP/EP concept differently.

Take for example, Sufjan's All Delighted People which was billed as an EP despite it being an hour long. The idea here is that it's an "odds and ends" collection, it doesn't hang together as a singular piece/narrative. A different artist could have very well presented it as a "compilation" or "B-sides" LP.

On the other hand, punk bands are known to release 20 minute "LPs." So release length doesn't necessitate format. Thee Oh Sees have released 30 minute albums and 30 minute EPs and I can't figure out why they flip flop on format presentation... they all sound like they hang together well. Maybe thematically John thought some of them were all over the place, so he called them EPs.

All this to say, AC are very intentional about the presentation of their songs. If they think "Defeat" is part of a whole, they'll present it as part of an LP, regardless of length. If they feel it's an outlier or its own thing that doesn't fit with the collection of tracks they have in mind as "the album," then they'll put it on an EP or release it as a stand-alone single.

To me, it feels like part of a bigger narrative/body of work, and that it'll be on something we'll refer to as "the next AC album."

[lhtd]

Why not just release Defeat as a standalone record? Call it a single or whatever; I think it actually makes the most sense to stand by itself somehow.

25 minute jam

Vinyl edit is 18 minutes

[tealtimes]

lhtd wrote:

Why not just release Defeat as a standalone record? Call it a single or whatever; I think it actually makes the most sense to stand by itself somehow.

25 minute jam

Vinyl edit is 18 minutes

from a promotional standpoint, i don't think Domino would ever go for it. albums are good because you can release the most accessible tracks/bangers as singles and draw people back to the release. as an ~18 minute single, Defeat is super dense and i don't think any one section has clean enough edges to be clipped out as a single.

my thoughts are this: given the huge vibes of Defeat, they'll put near the end of TS2, maybe making it the penultimate track. either that or it's making up the bulk of the EP, but it's so sprawling and epic that i can't see it anywhere else but winding down TS2.

[Stan]

I genuinely don't see how you can have an album with Magicians and Defeat on it, alongside stuff like Gem. Everything else will be completely dwarfed. Not sure what the answer is but I look forward to whatever.

[Fovrodi]

what if the synths sound like this

[Fovrodi]

or this

[Stan]

Two GOATS

[hedgecore]

I say put Defeat on a 12", have a dub or remix on the B side (or some companion piece). It's not like this is going to be a commercially viable song anyway (because of the length). if anything, putting it out as a standalone thing would probably make more sense (the band can promote it, talk about their upcoming album etc)

edit: or put b sides on the flip side and make it the next Fall Be Kind

[nothingmaster]

I've listened to Spaghet's Time Spliffs 2 mix to the point where it's surely fucked my experience of the analog recorded stuff when that finally comes out, but I simply do not care. Spaghet did a wonderful job with the transitions, using samples of the droney Blast segments to facilitate. Tracklist is:

Magicians
Gem
Soul
Kings
Broke
Feet
Stride
Genie

It is an absolutely stunning mix and Defeat is what ties the whole collection together. It is the heart and soul of the whole thing. Without Defeat, Kings does not fit at all. Stride's soulful yearning doesn't hit as deep. Broke Zodiac will feel like an introduction to nothing. Genies will lose its mystical gravity. Rather than stick out, Defeat is what elevates all the tracks to this mythical plane, and gives direction to the whole thing. Magicians and Gem is an excellent opening combo. The "we should take a long drive" into the "dreamland many miles inside me" is a very effective motif that draws you into the mystical realm and Defeat is the heart of it. And they all sound consistent under the loose category of classic british-ish psych folk/prog. I think without Defeat it will truly feel like an album of leftovers.

[lhtd]

Damn well said

[evan6032]

nothingmaster wrote:

I've listened to Spaghet's Time Spliffs 2 mix to the point where it's surely fucked my experience of the analog recorded stuff when that finally comes out, but I simply do not care. Spaghet did a wonderful job with the transitions, using samples of the droney Blast segments to facilitate. Tracklist is:

Magicians
Gem
Soul
Kings
Broke
Feet
Stride
Genie

It is an absolutely stunning mix and Defeat is what ties the whole collection together. It is the heart and soul of the whole thing. Without Defeat, Kings does not fit at all. Stride's soulful yearning doesn't hit as deep. Broke Zodiac will feel like an introduction to nothing. Genies will lose its mystical gravity. Rather than stick out, Defeat is what elevates all the tracks to this mythical plane, and gives direction to the whole thing. Magicians and Gem is an excellent opening combo. The "we should take a long drive" into the "dreamland many miles inside me" is a very effective motif that draws you into the mystical realm and Defeat is the heart of it. And they all sound consistent under the loose category of classic british-ish psych folk/prog. I think without Defeat it will truly feel like an album of leftovers.

Where does one find this mix you’re speaking of?

[roopn]

awesome post nothingmaster

[nothingmaster]

https://mega.nz/file/VoZBjKZZ#sPdtKyEhz ... cywu5oD8eY

Thanks again to Spaghet for making this. It's a mix made from the Blast rehearsals

[blindmowing]

thanks for the words & Link, nothingmaster. that caught me real good

[rohcti]

Not a big fan of the track order, but it's a great mix otherwise. The transitions are cool. Thanks for the link!