[coral lord]

Respectfully.

[opposite field]

Tropic wrote:

Think all three sections are better. Sucks to be you guys

[unpopular]

Jam wrote:

I'll take the heat for this --- love Defeat but I think the first and last sections could stand to be half as long and they'd still create the same effect

yeah basically this lol

the iterating of this song from music box -> 2019 -> 2021 -> post-skiffs tour has been interesting to witness play out. i think part 2 peaked at the music box, then went to the absolute bottom of the barrel with that goofy ass harpsichord shit in 2019. so glad they ditched that sound. at this point, it sounds just subpar compared to the original, but that's also because it's become 1/10th the length of the actual song.

part 1 and part 3 are at their strongest and most fleshed out place now in my opinion, but they could cut them in half and it would be much better. especially live, there's no reason for the third+ "just a frightened mother..." verse and it drags sooooooo much. as soon as they hit that third one i went to go take a piss because i know i had 5+ minutes before the song was over lol

coral lord wrote:

Music Box: Just under 15 minutes long
1st section: 4:30 minutes
2nd section: 4 minutes
3rd section: 6 minutes
9:30 club version: 21 minutes long
1st section: 9 minutes
2nd section: 2 minutes
3rd section: 10 minutes

i love the rubato and emotional ebbing and flowing of the tempo here but it just drags sooooo much at 20+ minutes. think if it was 18 minutes (trim the fat from part 1 and 3 and add some back to part 2) it would be at its peak form.

[lhtd]

never ask for a shorter animal collective song

blasphemy, man

[unpopular]

im down for them to keep it long if they actually go somewhere with the length and add some dynamism to it instead of repeating verses over and over again

[lhtd]

new title for "defeat" shall be "repeat"

ᵕ̈

[conswaygo]

I think the album version of Defeat is almost guaranteed to surprise us.

I agree that the last section could be trimmed a bit. It felt like Dave was really into it while performing and that could explain the extended length in a live setting.

[unrecordednight]

lhtd wrote:

never ask for a shorter animal collective song

blasphemy, man

yeah i feel like the length complaints would only really apply to hearing it live for me, hope the album version is 45 min long

[unpopular]

i know the studio version of this is gonna absolutely smack

[wilandhugs]

unrecordednight wrote:

lhtd wrote:

never ask for a shorter animal collective song

blasphemy, man

yeah i feel like the length complaints would only really apply to hearing it live for me, hope the album version is 45 min long

That's a good point, I sort of began to felt that near the end and maybe it was because of their exhaustion or because I wanted to hear other tracks. Either way I know the mix is gonna have so much detail and atmosphere during the live parts where it started to lull, so yeah. Won't cut into other tracks, especially if it takes up a whole vinyl side on its own.

[Jam]

unrecordednight wrote:

yeah i feel like the length complaints would only really apply to hearing it live for me, hope the album version is 45 min long

It is moreso live for me, wouldn't mind it at all on record. Five minutes shaved from live Defeat means five minutes freed up for Fickle Cycle!!!

[Tropic]

"Defeat... Oh no not now" on a locked groove

[destiny]

Tropic wrote:

"Defeat... Oh no not now" on a locked groove

Oh my god i would shit my pants

[TetsuoUnderFire]

Tropic wrote:

"Defeat... Oh no not now" on a locked groove

I wish the guys still lurked here so they could see this. It needs to be done. Would be such a great closer.

[Fovrodi]

If Defeat closes any release I am walking away and not looking back forever

[destiny]

Wow im just listening to the saxophone but I fucking love what it adds to the third section. I love the kinda minimalistic approach to it but this gives it exactly what it needs. Just wisps

[dio]

Some of yal in here saying Defeat could be shorter smh... One day defeat will be gone and won't come back til like 2037 post retirement reunion shows. So we really shouldn't take for granted that they're playing it every night rn. Could be gone or less common in May for all we know.

(Ok mmmmmmmayve the second repetion of first part could JUST be the verse and not the stay grounded part I GUESS)

My personal recording of Nashville's last week is now my go to and I'm actually listening to a defeat recording more than I ever have. But it's also a cursed recording cuz it literally cuts out right before first "isn't it now" cuz like a dumb ass I was moved around that moment that I briefly entertained taking out phone to record VIDEO which stopped the audio smdh


I still have the best part which is middle to first half offinal part tho.

The lyrics after the mid section are just straight up some of the best aveys written ever period huh. The "good news" and "good dog" stretches just fucking absolt ovliterate me. With the harmonies too. This song has fully crystallized and I think the way they are playing it now is pretty much exactly how it'll be on record and that's fuggin great. Not sure if that sax or like authentic og music box elements made it in, which could be sick

[dio]

"anything will do, twist one off and pass it 'round" and really all those verse were just complete chills. For like the whole crowd. I could feel it.. pretty much everyone having the same internal happy cry warm feeling this song triggers.i guess that's how it (AND Prester (the path) were too at the MB shows

I fuggin hope it's still around in May. It reminds me of the same kind of deep dmt style zone that daily routine back half knocks you into live. Like it's this specific zone, it's not even just emotional, it's like phsycially/vibrational. More than usual even these songs are literal and entire environs live. U get it

[Stan]

Last section is best it's ever been. Amazing song.

Just a little shame about the middle.

Opening is still great, about as good as the better versions.

[dio]

I love the middle part. It hits so hard live, and at that point everyone is totally on board even if they never heard it before. I do wonder why he doesn't do the original Ascending melody with the "there was not a [woman singing backwards" bit every other time with the current DEscending part that just repeats.

I think that'd work but I mean I dont think the part is about melody. Its the bombastic rhythmic and triumphant moment in the song before the long slow graceful fall of the last third. AND also the baroque-y instrumental break that happens twice b/w the singing parts is amazing and honestly one of the top 3 aspects of the song to me

(the part that was actually a harpsichord synth in '19 that people didnt like but is currently amazing. The weird singing Avey does then is great.

[captainlunatic]

i'm thinking if the studio version is gonna sound anything like the time skiffs songs production-wise, we're in for a treat

[tay's tee games]

FWIW, though I'd say my demoitis is beyond severe at this point, I think the MBV version is sort of its own thing and has unbelievable highs. But most of those highs and that general energy just wouldn't match the newer versions. Also listening back to the MBV version it feels so incomplete without Noah's harmonies, which is why I compartmentalise it.

I think the 22 version is a maaaaaaassive improvement on the 19 version and it's as good as it can get. The harpsichord bit (imo) was tacky as fuck. I get what people are saying about length but it's its own damn world so let it unravel.

Similarly if you compare other MBV versions, there are some cool elements that the start of Magicians is now missing but it just wouldn't work in the context of how these songs are now. Feel like The Path version of PJ would've fit in so beautifully with the Skiffs 2 songs but love how it's also now its own version and we have two of them.

[coral lord]

Don't get me wrong about the length, I don't mind it being longer. Longer is good. My issue is that it used to be 3 parts that were closer to equal length and now it is distributed in such a way that makes it drag. Take a few minutes from the end and add them to the middle section and I'm good!

[fordtonic]

Is there a best version of this from the current tour someone can point me to please?

[Hellomark]

Thinking about how "fear of things decaying fast/still I awake to healthy roses" is one of their most beautiful lines, just the earnestness and simplicity is really striking. The idea of fearing the inevitably of all things, including yourself, deteriorating, punctuated by brief glimpses of the vibrance and possibility of life. Really connects to me, especially going through the pandemic. Interesting that it was written like 2 years prior.

[dio]

Honestly I love all the lyrics of this esp, first verse and pre-"deFEAT" lyrics (and those too..) in a deeper more hard hitting way than any AC lyrics have made me feel since I got into them in '08... like Pullhair/Spirit/Feels/SJ level of lyrical gut-punchery

Don't even mean that as a diss to '10s output. Man of Oil also has a hint of that really raw and rambling Avey that cuts deep too (and Euc/some Cows). The sonic environment also is a huge part of it hitting too obviously. Can u imagine if they sang the same lyrics about Good News/Good dog in hocketing? lol

[dansemanatee]

dio wrote:

Honestly I love all the lyrics of this esp, first verse and pre-"deFEAT" lyrics (and those too..) in a deeper more hard hitting way than any AC lyrics have made me feel since I got into them in '08... like Pullhair/Spirit/Feels/SJ level of lyrical gut-punchery

Don't even mean that as a diss to '10s output. Man of Oil also has a hint of that really raw and rambling Avey that cuts deep too (and Euc/some Cows). The sonic environment also is a huge part of it hitting too obviously. Can u imagine if they sang the same lyrics about Good News/Good dog in hocketing? lol

yea so many lines on that song hit me in the gut. "PRAISE BE THE UNDERDOG" gets me every time

[Tropic]

Gets you every time yet you only got 75% of the words right

[roopn]

Come on Tropic, bit harsh

[Tropic]

I'm bustin chops !

[dio]

I saw that and was like, IS that what he sings? Yeah I guess so.

[Stan]

We were the good news...

[Stan]

Pretty tempted to do the definitive cover of Defeat

I just can't play any instrument

[roopn]

You know how Stan gets when he's been on the boots

[destiny]

The saxophone will fucking destroy me in this song (and in stan's cover)

[Tropic]

Stan and tropic - defeat (melodica cover)

[roopn]

Tropic wrote:

Stan and tropic - defeat (melodica cover)

Available exclusively on Vocaroo

[foxtrot]

have been trying to steer away from boots but couldn't stop myself from listening to KidsEatKeyboard's new version of Skiffs 2.

I think the newest version of the middle section feels tighter and more interesting than previous iterations (not including Music Box).

[shanedabes]

Just saw them play Defeat in San Diego.
It was way better than I remember it being when I saw them in 2019.
The intro is a big improvement without the pianica/melodica effect.
The middle section is killer. It's been a while since I heard old boots of it so I don't remember that big of a difference in the third section. Overall an improvement and loved that they have the guts to play 20 minute unreleased song in the middle of their sets.

[foxtrot]

When will we finally get this in our lives?!!