The pessimism is exhausting to me but that feeling implies I want all of us to be as un-discerning as I am re not nit picking and makes it seem like I don't want people to express criticism which doesn't seem right either. Eh idk.. can't literally all yr qualms be addressed in full by just accepting that Live and Studio are fully different things and one doesn't need to be the same as the other???
Funny you use Water Curses EP as example of last fully good studio thing when none of those songs were payed live before and barely after*. Ha! I win
Mix yr favorite Defeats in Audacity together so each of yr favorite iterations of the 3 parts are combined and lock yrself in a dungeon forever?
who in the fuck gives a duck about the second part of Defeat??? The vocal part of it literally never mattered. I was there both times the first time it happened in Nola and I was literally just waiting for NOT the 3rd part but the fucking sick instrumental part at the END of the 2nd part, which is now better than ever, not including the infamous harpsichord of '19 but alluding to it beautifully. There has truly never been a set and satisfying vocal melody for the 2nd part, who gives a duck! Not what that parts about! and none of us are worthy of ANY of the parts!!! Can fans be overly entitled?
I don't really understand why you want or need any qualms or criticisms to be 'addressed'. I'm just describing how I feel about their music. There's nothing to resolve.
I find the idea that' everything is equally good in its own way' devalues it all. It's not all equally good, irrespective of preference.
The idea that 'the vocal part never mattered' is impossible to comprehend for me. How much could we remove before it matters? What do you like about it? Is it simply the fact that Animal Collective made it?
If you change the notes, sounds and delivery/performance, there's going to be an impact. But you're suggesting you can actually just remove a section and it's still equally good? Who gives a fuck about the vocal melody if the instrumental bit is good? What do you mean by 'it's not what that part is about'? It's about everything that's present.
Without being unkind, it reads like you're contorting yourself to 'justify' how you feel and seemingly to disprove how I feel about it. You don't need to. I feel the same way about the 'maturity' and progression chat around these songs. So they're playing some simple bass lines and vaguely jazzy keys? If you want easygoing psych rock with keys, there are literally thousands of bands to satisfy that need for plodding, pedestrian good vibes. And it's absolutely fine that Animal Collective are providing that at this point, I just don't believe that these well-worn elements are a sign of development - quite the opposite.
Also they did play Street Flash before the WC release. My point was just that it is their last really great studio recording.
I like that AC like a lot of "uncool" music: Steely Dan, Grateful Dead, Phil Collins, The Police, Enya, Daft Punk even. Seeing their recs made me let my guard down at a pretty crucial time when I thought their kind of music was the most important. I'll find the interview but Deakin had a great quote along the lines of: "I think the light bulb moments keep coming but other stuff takes up your time as you get older." Honestly that's been the reality since Centipede Hz
Simple solution to that problem is to stop listening to it until there is a studio version
i should clarify the last time i listened was once when the last blast session occurred (however long it’s been - a month? 2 months ago?) and it was very sparingly between music box and then.. the issue is that it’ll be 5+ years in existence once we actually get a recorded version and it just doesn’t thrill me anymore
_________________
Paul Giamatti wrote:
You are absolutely free to describe me as a turtle or something.
I'm just thinking of almost every recording since the Water Curses EP fifteen years ago. They consistently flub their best songs in the studio.
House
Taste
Brother Sport
Grace
All of TB
Take This Weight
All of GR & EPs
Saturdays
Midnight Special
Cherokee (based on Blast)
Defeat?
I love the band, love their songs, love the bootlegs, find their more recent recordings relatively weak and sometimes just dull.
You only have to listen to the PW live shows to hear the enormous gulf in quality and emotional resonance compared to the recorded songs. An album which is widely regarded as bouncy frippery becomes a fucking monster live set up there with some of their best music.
They're essentially a live affair for me after Water Curses, solo work included. The studio recordings are a passing fancy. That's why I'm not especially arsed about whichever faded Xerox version of Defeat they end up with. We already have a few amazing versions of the song as it was conceived at the moment of inspiration.
Your takes may be hot, and I may not totally agree with them all the time, but they're good.
I feel similarly with most of the post-MPP material, but I think some songs have improved greatly on the record. Taste ended up better to me, as did Take This Weight. I completely agree otherwise.
I've got dozens of live sets on my phone that I play in my car. I've got lots of downtime that requires me to sit in it waiting, and one of my favorite ways to pass the time is to queue up playlists of different versions of songs. I love listening to the changes that ultimately arrive to the recorded versions. Rarely do the recorded versions do the songs justice, in my opinion. But sometimes they do.
Simple solution to that problem is to stop listening to it until there is a studio version
i should clarify the last time i listened was once when the last blast session occurred (however long it’s been - a month? 2 months ago?) and it was very sparingly between music box and then.. the issue is that it’ll be 5+ years in existence once we actually get a recorded version and it just doesn’t thrill me anymore
Yeh ok. I guess other bands have done similar things (Radiohead and True Love Waits for example). I’ve only listened to Defeat a handful of times too. I think it’ll slay. But I can understand that the long wait would kill the momentum and enthusiasm for you.
They're been pretty loose with the vocal deliveries on the new singles. Wilding out. A promising development, especially after the flatness of Prestor John. Hopefully that translates to TS2 and Defeat
fuck...i rescind my previous comments about being burnt out from defeat...after hearing the beautiful detail and color added to passer-by and royals (two jams that i liked, but didn't LOVE), i think the eventual emergence of studio defeat will be downright euphoric...i'm back on the hype train dawgzzz
_________________
Paul Giamatti wrote:
You are absolutely free to describe me as a turtle or something.
fuck...i rescind my previous comments about being burnt out from defeat...after hearing the beautiful detail and color added to passer-by and royals (two jams that i liked, but didn't LOVE), i think the eventual emergence of studio defeat will be downright euphoric...i'm back on the hype train dawgzzz
Im from a different boat where I never cared too heavy about Defeat, but now I can only imagine how bonkers it's gonna be.
Did you listen to the Blast version? A little bit different and more intimate, still not great sound quality but I think especially the change in the middle part makes it feel more cohesive
Did you listen to the Blast version? A little bit different and more intimate, still not great sound quality but I think especially the change in the middle part makes it feel more cohesive
I think I just got too obsessed on the other tracks. I totally see my self as sleeping on it and I kinda imagine one day before skiffs 2 the blast one will fully click into place. I also just couldn't stop playing Magicians once that one came out, and at the same time nonetheless. Also 20 minutes has been a bit intimidating for me.
I'm sorry Stan but I will only delete my account when you admit that PW rules
Had a crack at the lyrics on this most recent version:
1st Section
Verse 1:
Lightning crashed, I got your letter
Look through pin holes, through the garden
I ran, seeking solitude
A dragon statue, in the fountain
Lots of things decaying fast
And eyes wake through healthy roses
Each of them of innocent bloom
Children crying under wagons
Douse the sheets with ladies’ ash
This whole thing will also crash
Strangers laying with the lambs
Drawing signs that look like ghosts they’ll wash away
Chorus 1:
Strap something, take hold
The only things you hold
Stay grounded like the spruce
They’ll change
Just grab something, take hold
The only thing you know
Stay grounded like the spores
Verse 2:
Someday friend, we’ll meet again
Hopefully then the earth is quiet
I’ll lay down with you and then
Loneliness is left in letters
Voices singing other tunes
Did not make the sound of lions
Watches, gems, they’re holding fall
I could catch those loose ones purring
Wash away
Chorus 2:
Strap something, take hold
The only thing to hug
Stay grounded like the spruce
They’ll change
Just grab something, take hold
The only thing you know
Stay grounded like the spores
Middle Section:
There was not a sound in the water where we go when we’re all winding down
3rd section:
Once have a good way
The good way was always being caught
Handled with care, coming of age
The ‘anything would do’
Twist that off and pass around
And then he changed, coming of age
We once had a free line
Opportunity to write home
Top of the game when you’re coming of age
And raised by the underdogs
Hey, that was you and the good dog
What was its name? Coming of age
Just a frightened mother
Looking for some shelter
Just as justice wanders
Looking for some shelter
Once, in a good cage
I had a room and you knew me well
Paint us some rays, coming of age
We were the good news
Now I’m on that bird, how bout you?
Where do we stand? Coming of age
Just a frightened mother
Looking for her daughter
Just as justice wanders
Looking for some shelter
Isn't it now, defeat?
Oh, no, not now.
crying just reading the lyrics again (and heaving heard the MBV a few times these last years). If they nail this in the studio it will be the(ir) best song ever period. And I will play it on my funeral.
this song just floors me every time. listening now, knowing how incredible Skiffs sounds, I can't even fathom how this is going to effect me on first listen to the eventual studio version. I am seriously going to just sob uncontrollably for the whole 20 minutes.
While I have downloaded boots of past shows, I usually only go back and listen to live stuff after i've heard the studio versions. But I'm getting kinda curious now about defeat. What's the best version to listen to? Is the 2018 Music Box show what I should listen to?
I used foxtrot's transcription as base while listening to defeat (ashville+lexington) today and some things stuck out that didn't seem right from what I read, so I attempted to correct some of it. I've added (?) to the lines where I still have no idea what avey sung, but this should be fairly close (or entirely wrong). They tend to add and remove some words in between the performances I noticed. So I imagine some words are just not final (blast version has the most differences, though it's technically older).
wrote:
Verse 1:
Lightning crashed, I read your letter
Looked through pin holes, through the garden
I ran seeking solitude
Dragon statues broke the fountain
Figure of things decaying fast (?)
Still I wake to healthy roses
The betrayal of innocent bloom (?)
Children crying under wagons
Douse the sheets with ladies’ ash
This whole thing will also pass
Strangers laying with the lambs
Drawing signs that look like boats that wash away
Chorus 1:
Just grab something, take hold
The only thing to hold
Stay grounded like the spruce
They’ll change
Just grab something, take hold
The only thing you know
Stay grounded like the spruce
Verse 2:
One day friend, we’ll meet again
Hopefully then the earth is quiet
I’ll lay down with you in bed
Loneliness is left for letters
Voices sinking other tunes
Did not make the sound of lions
Watches gems, they’ll hold and fall (?)
Dive to catch the loose ones purring (?)
Broke the day (?)
Chorus 2:
Just grab something, take hold
The only thing to hold
Stay grounded like the spruce
They’ll change
Just grab something, take hold
The only thing you know
Stay grounded like the spruce
Middle Section:
There was not a sound in the water, the rainbow, the werewolves, were they found? (?)
3rd section:
Once was a good way
The good way was always paved fly (?)
Handled with care, we were coming of age
The ‘anything will do’
Twist them off and pass around
When did it change? Coming of age
We once got a free line
Opportunity'd rather come
You're on top of your days, when you’re coming of age
And praise for the underdog
That was you, with the good dog
What was its name? Coming of age
Just a frightened mother
Looking for her daughter
Justice, justice, wanders
Looking for some shelter
Once on a good day
I had a room and you knew it well
Our games had some grace, we were coming of age
And we were the good news
Now I’m all out but how about you?
Where do we stand? Coming of age
Just a frightened mother
Looking for her daughter
Justice, justice, wanders
Looking for some shelter
Isn't it now, defeat?
Oh no, not now.
I've lurked in the forum for a couple years and have enjoyed many of the recent boots since 2019, especially defeat. Was fun to read a lot of your words from this album rollout! This song is great. Hoping it comes out as soon as the other new material.
Listening to last night's Defeat and it's still amazing how they totally Animal Collectived the second part. Completely removed the joyful vocal melody, the central catharsis of the song, and replaced it with two notes like a carney oompah band at the coronation of Frankfurter King in a hotdog eating contest.
And they have the audacity to gaslight ME in interviews about demoitis.
Also listening to last night's phone boot and Defeat feels like Cuckoo's melancholic epilogue lyrically, at least for that first section. Coming to terms with the loss. It's heavy.
Saw it live. Almost 4 year build up. Single tear literally... Trying not to sob like a bitch!!!!That shit fucked me up. Felt the last four years pass through. All the fucked shit. It's been weird.
Saw it live. Almost 4 year build up. Single tear literally... Trying not to sob like a bitch!!!!That shit fucked me up. Felt the last four years pass through. All the fucked shit. It's been weird.
I feel you on that one. When I saw it live, that shit rearranged my brain and guts and took me out of my body. Had to take a long drive in silence thinking about what I felt/was feeling after the show. Lysergic as fuck. Avey definitely tapped into some other world with that one. So much grief and despair in that last section. I had thoughts of people going through mass suffering when hearing it. Like images of people surviving the war in Syria and running from smoke from the twin towers. And I saw them play it in October 2019, pre-pandemic. Like how the fuck could they know what was coming a few months later. Still freaks me out.
I guess the closest thing I know that gives me the same feeling is Pendercki's psychotic ass violin pieces. But this song hits deeper cuz of the human voice. I don't know, but I'm in the keep Defeat off the next LP club and make it a stand alone 12". It just affects me in the way that a singular powerful piece of music does. I can't see songs come before or after it. But who knows, they might be able to sequence it well. I just hope its over 20 minutes long.
Maybe some subtle changes, some of the lyrics are a little different, no major changes musically I think. Keep in mind I'm going off my extremely faded recollection of the 930 club show last night.
Saw it live. Almost 4 year build up. Single tear literally... Trying not to sob like a bitch!!!!That shit fucked me up. Felt the last four years pass through. All the fucked shit. It's been weird.
It really feels like a singular experience in their catalog, perhaps in all of “pop music.” And, like you before last night, I’ve only heard cruddy boots. The Blast version + wine and I’m crying in my sleeping bag at the bottom of the world. I like the Penderecki comparison. His record with Beth Gibbons, conducting Górecki’s Symphony of Sorrowful Songs, has a similar energy and vibe. Just all out dark catharsis, hope, defeat. An adventure.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
