[foxtrot]

Thought it might be worth a dedicated thread.

I'm speculating it'll have:

Kings
Gem and I
Magicians in Baltimore
Broke / Strangers
(a new studio only track somewhere in the track list)
Stride Right
Defeat

Hopefully in that rough sequence.

Kings (maybe edited down a bit) would be a cool way to open the record. They have used it as a kind of opener after breaks/intermissions in the set. Gem and I feels like a great way to settle into a groove after Kings. Defeat is like the Safer of the new era and I remember us all predicting that Safer would be the SJ closer before we knew it'd been left off. It'd be a fucking epic closer and career pinnacle.

Other new songs feel less likely to be included I feel.

What do others think?

[dio]

super reasonable prediction. I think Soul Capturer could fit but also could see it being a b-side or advance non-album single even.

[Strange_Clams]

soul capture hasn't done anything for me in its current form. but dave seems to like it...i'm guessing it'll probably evolve at least one more time before we hear a studio version

[rohcti]

She has good bones cap'n

[wilandhugs]

Soul Capturer could definitely work with some extra love, it'd be awesome to hear a blast session to get a better idea though, as great as those live versions of Gem and I were, but that version is so insane that it really throws off what I think the album could sound like-- I don't hear 'medieval', I hear constellations dancing over the Parthenon-- which I guess kinda gets that ancient sound.

[Tropic]

See them fly sea of light see them way up in the sky

[Slippi's Applesauce]

Magicians would be an amazing opener imo

[Tropic]

Has to be magicians. The way that songs opens is so mysterious. Would be a perfect opener.

It's a weird one but with the batch of songs they've left for this one... it really could be their best. I'm almost not as excited for Skiffs because this other thing is looming. Magicians, kings, defeat. Feels like a culmination of their sound, a kind of ending

[coral lord]

Magicians as the opener, Genie's as the closer.

Let's get real magical with it

[Slippi's Applesauce]

someone was talking recently about defeat's unresolved ending leading perfectly into genies. ac hsn't really closed on such a downer ending like defeat before, so i feel like something like this would work:

magicians
broke
kings (also could go before defeat but i feel like that would be too much? idk)
unplayed song (last of the 17 mentioned in 2019)
gem and i
stride right
defeat
genie's open

[deadasshella]

honestly not sure how they gona pull it off. defeat is such a big majestic song to integrate in a 2xLP of short dubby tracks so maybe they cut some off for a 12 inch like tipped in hugs?

1A
1. Magicians
2. Gem and I

1B
3. Broke
4. Strangers

Disc 2A
6. Soul Capturer
7. Stride Right

Disc 2B
8. Defeat

12"
1. Genie
2. Kings

[bullseye]

Aren't Broke and Strangers the same song? And even if they weren't, I think it would be pretty unlikely to have 3 panda tracks right after one another.
I think Spilling Guts/Summing the Wretch is the only example of two Panda songs back to back on an AC album.

[opposite field]

Defeat has gotta be the penultimate track, it knocks you on your ass and then the last track could be one to pick you up again. Genie's feels like a classic AC closer to me. At this point I'm trying not to listen to this stuff much though so I don't have the best memory of what everything sounds like.

[coral lord]

bullseye wrote:

Aren't Broke and Strangers the same song? And even if they weren't, I think it would be pretty unlikely to have 3 panda tracks right after one another.
I think Spilling Guts/Summing the Wretch is the only example of two Panda songs back to back on an AC album.

maybe it's broke by modest mouse then strangers by animal collective

that would be a great side b

[deadasshella]

oh im dumb as shit, guess it would make sense to do

broke, genies, then kings. or maybe magicians into genie, into gem and i and then broke.

[Slippi's Applesauce]

soul capturer doesn't fit with the rest imo. neither does gem and i tbh, but i feel like it's much more likely to be included

[Tropic]

Defeat has an uplifting ending? And is resolved.

"Isn't it now? Defeat? Oh no, not now..."

[deadasshella]

agree that defeat is resolved, i think its a perfect ending.
disagree that gem and i doesnt fit, it seems to fit the vibe with all these low key bassy tracks. soul capture on the other hand needs a bassline

[opposite field]

Tropic wrote:

Defeat has an uplifting ending? And is resolved.

"Isn't it now? Defeat? Oh no, not now..."

Yeah it's kind of a fakeout sad song huh,the overall mood is more hopeful of the future than anything else I think. The "someday friend we'll meet again" section definiely hit me hard during the early months of the pandemic. Still stand by my hopes for to be the second to last though.

[quote="deadasshella"]agree that defeat is resolved, i think its a perfect ending.
disagree that gem and i doesnt fit, it seems to fit the vibe with all these low key bassy tracks. soul capture on the other hand needs a bassline[/quote]

Deakin is on bass for Soul Capturer but he's strumming chords.

[destiny]

Iirc Defeat has a closing chord that resolves it that is kinda hard to hear in live performances. Im ight be mishearing it, but I hear it in the Meow Wolf performance right at the ending, but I'm going to relisten to 2021 show just in case for no misinfo. Regardless Defeat -> Sea of Light could very well end the album as I feel Sea of Light follows defeat very well. The way speculative ac tracklist posting is honest to Jesus meditative to me fsklagg

Magicians
Gemini
Kings
Broke
Stride Right
Defeat
Sea of Light

perhaps?

btw they need to not have genies open be named that, please be named Sea of Light

ADHD edit: Fuck just invisioned the Sea of Light acapella coda going into the synths of defeat... we might have to flip that fucker around boys,,

[Tropic]

Hahaha. We're gonna invert it!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nhxm5QEbYI&ab_channel=rwitmer22[/youtube]

[Slippi's Applesauce]

I’m not saying gem and I wouldn’t fit in at all, it just feels so much more like the time skiffs tracks to me. I feel like the new Broke is a good middle ground that might bridge gem and I in better.

I look at defeat as being unresolved and dark bc of how pandas comforting vocals drift away and all were left with is avey’s DEFEAT. I haven’t heard an ending chord but when the “oh no not now” part goes away I feel like the hopeful light is being sucked out. Maybe I’m alone in that here

[scrambledgreggs]

Tropic wrote:

I'm almost not as excited for Skiffs because this other thing is looming. Magicians, kings, defeat. Feels like a culmination of their sound, a kind of ending

seriously. it's almost not fair to Skiffs to have these other epic songs floating around for years now, since I'm sure Skiffs will be amazing in its own right

[wilandhugs]

I really like the idea of opening with magicians and ending with sea of light, like:
magicians
gem and I
stride right
broke
*maybe new song*
defeat
kings
sea of light

[Strange_Clams]

Defeat is not a closing track for me...it feels like it would fit best as a large mid album chunk.

My worst fear is that they separate it into 3 tracks on-album

[jusswerjk]

Tropic wrote:

It's a weird one but with the batch of songs they've left for this one... it really could be their best. I'm almost not as excited for Skiffs because this other thing is looming.

Same. I mean, Skiffs is gonna be great but I feel like it's just kind of a warm up for what's coming. I haven't listened to any of the boots but I know it's gonna be big. I'm expecting like 5 songs 15-20 minutes each. Can't wait.

[hunkswithguns]

Great point. Whatever they release within the next year or so (Skiffs, Skiffs 2, Music Box, etc.) is all gonna feel like the same extended era (that begun with Music Box?)...to me, at least.

There's so much material that's all baking, it sets a precedent beyond the LP/EP/Single's worth of a past era's material. Imagine them ending this insane era with a camping weekend where they Skiff around and play like 4 hours worth of jams in some bonkers art installation. They're no strangers to cool, inventive ways to celebrate the present and reinvent the past.

I'm seeing/hoping the band settles into euphoric Grateful Dead vibes... from their sonic directions and overall philosophies that music is a living, growing thing (bootleg friendly, humble, down to Earth artists striving to evolve the relationship between artist and performer by releasing curated mixtapes, raw studio jams, etc.).

What I'm getting at is....I want them to continue the tradition of the Dead and play 2 live sets. If that means nixing an opener and charging more for the live shows, so be it. Get weird with it. Play some Painting With on acoustic guitars. Vibe out with a 20 minute Doggy. Bust out Deakin harmonies on That It Won't Grow. Expand your minds, fellow travelers. The Collective's vast, varied catalog and current levitating jam style (exemplified by the first Blast Session) has me salivating for the next step in sonic psychedelic experience. Or something.

Exciting times, friends.

[dio]

wrote:

edit: just had an idea... Chz and PW both had a non-album single... former pre-lP release, latter, after. Could that mean Gem & I could be a post-release non-album single???

idk where to post this honestly, but could the answer to Gem & I's release be a non-album single? It's pretty damn catchy.

Gem & I on same record as Defeat is certainly an interesting proposition. Could work, but there are also other options..

[KidEatsKeyboard]

A little EP between or after these albums would be really cool. It could have tracks like Gem and I, Tri Kid, Peanut Butter Hearts, etc.

[wilandhugs]

Broke is so damn pastoral, it really reminds me of English Settlement/Mummer/Apple Venus 1 by XTC, sounds like staring up at the sun while working on a farm on a hot summer morning... And yet it also reminds me of like, an elevator in the best way possible. Now that we have a good boot it's quickly becoming one of my favorites.

[unrecordednight]

Tropic wrote:

Has to be magicians. The way that songs opens is so mysterious. Would be a perfect opener.

It's a weird one but with the batch of songs they've left for this one... it really could be their best. I'm almost not as excited for Skiffs because this other thing is looming. Magicians, kings, defeat. Feels like a culmination of their sound, a kind of ending

Magicians would be a great pick for opener but i could also see stride right being an equally great opener in its newest form, the way it gently eases into itself and the first line of it being "here once again..." etc

personally i'm pretty equally psyched for both bc my favorite tracks are evenly split between the two (cherokee, passerby, royal, vs defeat, magicians, and stride right). pretty hyped for walker and we go back as well. second one i think feels more magical bc it seems more mysterious and feels like the songs were held back in a "saving the best for last" way. it also will probably have fewer tracks/longer songs sorta like campfire songs which makes it feel "epic" for lack of a better word

[unrecordednight]

also regarding sequencing, after getting used to defeat being the finale for the music box shows, it definitely felt weird initially when it returned in the middle of their 2019 sets, but i've since warmed up to the idea of it holding that spot. the 3rd "movement" of the 2019/21 version feels too melancholic now to end an album, and generally AC ends their albums with a song that feels more life-affirming than that. now it feels like it would better serve as the centerpiece of the album to sort of anchor the group of songs, like fireworks->essplode->fireworks used to be for their sets when it was played live, or like only skin on ys/in california on have one on me. you're eased into it and eased out of it rather than being hit with a very emotionally charged magnum opus out of gate or leaving you to sit with those heavy feelings when the album ends

other examples of ac using their longer and/or more emotional tracks in the middle of their albums: visiting friends, infant dressing table/two sails, bros/goodgirl/carrots, banshee beat, long pulleys jam in live sets, and to a lesser extent rev green/fireworks, chocolate girl, kc yours, come to your senses...

only ones i can think of that really go against that trend are alvin row and de soto de son, and they were both on albums full of long songs. so i'm gonna say 80-90% chance it will be around the middle of the album

[dio]

re-listening to the Cincinnati boot and wow Sea of Light/Genie's Open is kinda massive. I think I hadn't given it enough credit yet. Its got the hype level of something like brosport honestly. but starts with those gnarly harmonies. The most "medieval" vibe I had gotten was the harmonies in the earlier part. This could be a closer for sure

prediction:

side a:
magicians
kings

side b:
stride right
broke (strangers)
(album only/un-played track/or soul capturer or Gem & I if G&I isn't somehow a non-album single/b-side)

side c:
Defeat

side d:
Tri kid or a non-album track or 2 or a huge intro
Genie's Open

[unrecordednight]

agree with your assessment of genie dio, feel the same way

i know i posted this already during the flood of posts when prester john came out but i'm interested to lay out why this would be my ideal album:

Stride Right
Gem and I

Magicians from Baltimore


Defeat

Broke
Genie’s Open

non-album single:
soul capturer/kings, or kings/soul capturer

stride right eases you into the album and sets the tone, then you're hit with high energy gem and I. then magicians and defeat anchor the album as centerpieces, feels like they should each stand alone with their own intros and outros. then broke is the palette cleanser to defeat, and genie feels appropriate to wrap things up. i know kings fits the 'medieval' vibe with its name, and while i love both kings and soul capturer, i just feel like either of them would kill the momentum of the other tracks. and these 6 would be a plenty long album already: defeat 20 minutes, magicians 10, genie's 8, stride right 5-6, broke and gem and i 3-4 each = 49-52 min

alternatively:

Magicians
Gem and I

Stride Right
Broke

Defeat

Genie's Open

don't feel like the sequencing will vary much beyond these two. gem and i definitely feels like a track 2. very interested to see how they sequence this!

[KidEatsKeyboard]

I'm hoping for:

Kings
Magicians
Stride Right
(New Song?)
Broke
Defeat
Genie's Open

I love Gem and I, but it just doesn't really make sense with this batch of songs. I think it'd be better as a single or as part of an EP, but I wouldn't be upset if it still made it onto the album, it'd just be a little weird.

[nothingmaster]

My sequence

Genie's
Gem and I
???
Kings
Broke
Defeat
Stride
Magicians

I love Stride after Defeat, I'll ship that forever

[hunkswithguns]

I think Gem fits perfectly within the imagery/vibe of most of this era. (Specifically Kings, Dragon Slayer, Prester, Magicians, Defeat, Genie's).

They conjure a series of connected images and vibes...
Cave diving in vast caverns with hieroglyphics and cave paintings hidden throughout,
underground lakes illuminated by glowing magic crystals,
moonlit journeys over mountains and through ancient runes,
wizards, genies, lightening,
ocarina of time, disney's sword and the stone, the 10th kingdom....

A collection of songs charting a medieval quest that
begins with pushing off from the shores of home,
riding a skiff through the seas of time,
in search of destiny.

[KidEatsKeyboard]

Gem and I just feels like it belongs with Time Skiffs. It's jazzy

[Stanshant]

Must be a B-side. Doesn’t fit with the other stuff nearly as well.

[unrecordednight]

maybe a weird opinion, and i highly doubt this would ever happen but i would kind of love if the album was just:

stride right
magicians from baltimore
defeat
genie's open

with kings/soul capturer, and broke/gem&i as either 2 singles or all 4 as an ep! (i like broke a lot but gem and i is prob my least favorite song between this and time skiffs. pretty awesome lyrics tho