[destiny]

im not gonna lie..i feel the same way about grim reaper...i was so excited for some out there shit after i listened to the demos over and over...but it all seemed so saturated..and selfish gene was my fav song from the boots and he sorta compressed it all together...AND WHERE THE HELL IS mary wanna make my day? Cosplay is honestly my fav track from that era and one of my fav panda tracks of all time...but the DOLBY DIGITAL sample took that song to another level

[roopn]

SouvlakiPlaystation wrote:

PBVSGR honestly had the potential to be one of the best things any of them has put out, but the song arrangements, production and track sequencing all got a bit mucked up. It's still good though.

yep I'll agree with that

[jetski]

My only regret is that I have demoitis

but yeah by now I've gotten used to all the changes on the studio version of Greaper, feel like it took me a solid year of listening to the album to get accustomed to it. But I love it now, Come to Your Senses is definitely one of my fav Panda songs and I'm really happy with how it turned out on the album. And obviously we've got those rehearsal recordings too so at least we've got the option to listen to the stripped down versions of the songs

[roopn]

my main problem with PBVSGR is the instrumentation. Even in the live setting it feels pretty uninspired and flat. I feel like it doesn't really add to many of the songs

[destiny]

idk man...something about the last 2 pandas just made everything mush into eachother. grim reaps and lesser effect tomboy (with this fking reverberated guitar over errythang) but that didnt stop tomboy from having some damn beautiful songs man...but unfortunately i just feel grim reaps is exactly like the album cover actually...just really bright and loud but it all mends in with eachother

[destiny]

its the only real ac related proj that i dont vibe with...and i still vibe wit it...so i guess it is wat it is

[roopn]

Tomboy I think works because it creates a pretty consistent atmosphere. The only song on there that I tire of the guitar is Friendship Bracelet, and maybe slow motion. PBVSGR feels aimless in comparison.

You're right though it can still be vibed with. I just have fewer favourites on it

[Stanshant]

To listen to those rehearsals alongside what the album became is just a head scratcher. Like, how can you strike gold with almost every song at the initial stage and then end up with a plasticky flat lump? The whole thing sounds like it's had the life and inspiration and spontaneity squeezed from it in pursuit of the fucking goldilox zone. He was already there, so no wonder they struggled to find it.

One thing that struck me was that Noah always said that he liked to work quickly, get down the main ideas and then consider it done. Young Prayer and Person Pitch have this freshness in spades, and some rough edges and interesting 'of the moment' details. Greaper absolutely reeks of the studio.

To compare Lisbon Zoo and Jabbawocky with what they once were is incredibly damning of the recording and production time. They're processed cheese from a spray can. Lifeless, dull, goofy, weak. They hit like wet tissue paper. That heavy handed cartoon bass on Lisbon Zoo is the epitome of 'more is less', it simply ruins it, and Jabba is stodgy but insubstantial, like a mouthful of dough. The worst song the band has ever put out. Who's to blame for this? Well, Noah + recording space = unbelievably exciting music. Noah + studio + Sonic Boom = Panda Bear-lite.

Like, why did he ditch all the noisier elements and harder rhythms? Why did Crosswords change from this snaky, melancholic groove to a straightforward banger? How did the blurred edges of Selfish Gene get smoothed into a plodding pulse? Even Mr. Noah became anaesthetised. Did he suddenly change his mind and reject his first ideas which he rehearsed over and over and recorded and sequenced with transitions (that just got dumped)? I blame Sonic Boom for his influence and Noah for his lack of conviction. He took a silk purse and polished it into a turd. Again, as with MPP, please say goodbye to the producer and trust your instincts again. Or, ask Deakin.

[roopn]

stan I often disagree with your more colourful outbursts, but that pretty much sums up what appears to have happened. well said.

[speen]

ya nailed it stan

i will never get over the disappointment of hearing selfish gene on the album for the first time...... that really lost its bite in the studio

also, nadir was a better name. still annoyed at noah for that lmao

[Texas Trill]

Everyone who is disappointed with the studio treatment of PBVSGR should just listen to the demos from now one. Problem solved

It's the same issue people have with From a Beach or OG Taste. The radio show recordings exist and they sound great, so just listen to those to get your fix. It's like people are under the impression that studio albums are the only way we should be listening to music

For me, the Greaper Era was all about the live performance and Panda delivered. Those were some of the best live AC related shows I've been to and they helped pave the way for PW to also be dope in the concert setting.

[ogerrob]

Hash wrote:

I think, at least musically, ODDSAC is one of the best AC releases. Like top 4 maybe

this thread ended too soon. the first and last tracks on oddsac are the best songs from that era. a perfect marriage between the styles that started with feels and ended with chz. if you haven't done yourself the favor, find the audio to the film and listen.

[BiblePilot]

ogerrob wrote:

the first and last tracks on oddsac are the best songs from that era. a perfect marriage between the styles that started with feels and ended with chz. if you haven't done yourself the favor, find the audio to the film and listen.

Personally I think the highlights are "Mr. Fingers" and "Screens", but much love for "What Happened?" all the same.

The mixing/mastering is more suited for video though, which is something that somewhat inhibits my enjoyment of ODDSAC on a purely musical level.

[ogerrob]

BiblePilot wrote:

ogerrob wrote:

the first and last tracks on oddsac are the best songs from that era. a perfect marriage between the styles that started with feels and ended with chz. if you haven't done yourself the favor, find the audio to the film and listen.

Personally I think the highlights are "Mr. Fingers" and "Screens", but much love for "What Happened?" all the same.

The mixing/mastering is more suited for video though, which is something that somewhat inhibits my enjoyment of ODDSAC on a purely musical level.

i dunno the mixing/mastering work great for me audio only. working is also really overlooked in general as an ac song. oddsac is the last 'weird' record has as put out.

years later, strawberry jam isn't that great to me. can't get down to it like i used to. the live versions from that era are so much better. the early sped up version of reverend green is so much better than the final version.

[BiblePilot]

ogerrob wrote:

i dunno the mixing/mastering work great for me audio only. working is also really overlooked in general as an ac song. oddsac is the last 'weird' record has as put out..

Yeah, "Working" is fantastic! I also like "Kindle Song" quite a bit, though I mostly hear it as a coda to "Mr. Fingers".

To be more specific about my mixing issues... There are certain pieces of ambient audio that are intended to correspond with the visual (ie. footsteps on a river bed, people murmuring around a crackling campfire) which do not translate well to solo audio. I think those were the right decisions since ODDSAC is a first and foremost a visual album, but it still pulls me out of the experience.

My issue with the master is a little more intuitive, but it generally feels just a touch tinny / focused on the treble end. I end up missing a more punchy low end on a song like "Mr. Fingers".

[Stanshant]

Well, couple of points. It wasn't intended as an audio album at all nor have they ever suggested listening to the audio alone, nor given an easy option.

As for the mixing, I've always found Mr. Fingers to have heavy, deep and rich droning bass. What's the audio file version you've got? Is it a direct audio rip?

[BiblePilot]

Stanshant wrote:

Well, couple of points. It wasn't intended as an audio album at all nor have they ever suggested listening to the audio alone, nor given an easy option.

As for the mixing, I've always found Mr. Fingers to have heavy, deep and rich droning bass. What's the audio file version you've got? Is it a direct audio rip?

Yah it is. I confess my mastering qualms are more nitpicky than my mixing qualms, though.

I know it wasn't intended to be an audio-only album, and as I say as much in my last post. Overall I think they made the right choices in the ODDSAC mix since it's intended to be experienced with visuals.

[ogerrob]

this is the unpopular opinions thread and its an unpopular opinion to suggest oddsac is chill without the viz. we are in the right place for this. this zone is safe. safe zone.

[Stanshant]

Totally, yeah, I've listened to it hundreds of times and watched it about ten. That wasn't the contrary opinion though.

BiblePilot, sorry, misread your mastering as mixing. I think it does have a lot of trebly noise but sounds rich. I'll have a good listen next time and see what I feel.

[Tropic]

ODDSAC is unreal. Haven't watched it though.

But top to bottom it's incredible. I love all the ambient stuff. Urban Creeeeeme

[speen]

Tropic of Cans wrote:

ODDSAC is unreal. Haven't watched it though.

all these people thinking you can just listen to this without watching it, smh

[Tropic]

Heh heh. I've seen it piecemeal. In an ideal world I would have watched it first but I just haven't gotten around to it.

[BiblePilot]

Tropic of Cans wrote:

ODDSAC is unreal. Haven't watched it though.

BRUH.

[BiblePilot]

"Rosie Oh" is one of the very best Panda Bear songs.

The only ones I rank more highly are "Brother Sport", "Bro's" and "Take Pills".

[pigman08]

To add to that, Rosie Oh has some of the coolest Deakin guitar work. Weird to listen to his playing without being all drenched in effects, but the result is very pleasant.

[BiblePilot]

pigman08 wrote:

To add to that, Rosie Oh has some of the coolest Deakin guitar work. Weird to listen to his playing without being all drenched in effects, but the result is very pleasant.

Agreed!

[curleyswirley]

Strawberry Jam should have been three sides and an etching on vinyl:

A:
Peacbone
Unsolved
Chores

B:
Reverend
Fireworks
#1

C:
Winter
Cuckoo
Derek

Preserves the winter-cuckoo transition which is nice, and you don't end up with a ridiculously short side three consisting of just #1 and winter.

Maybe you could reissue it and just stick all of water curses on side 4 a bit like broken social scene's s/t that would be good

[AudibleKayak]

Or even put Safer on side 4

[dominoswriter92]

The final versions are definitely much different, but to me it's a good different.

Spoiler: show

The demo versions of PBVSGR are pretty cool to listen occasionally...but the final versions are actually better to me for the reasons many think it is bad: repetitive, lifeless, airless, etc. The glitchy style seems more like a direct evolution from CHz, while the final version feels a step beyond that, which I like. It feels like entire projected was zoomed in and refocused.

It's weird, because part of why I like the album so much is that it's so repetitive and "lifeless". The contrast between Panda's vocals and the arrangements, along with the repetition, is what makes this album so special to me. I like that the production feels glossy, even kind of mixed up sometimes. It really sounds the album cover (in an awesome way).

There is something really comforting about the way the album cycles that I feel is unique. Like in Selfish Gene, even though the production "teases towards an ascension that never comes", the ascension is actually happening in my mind, because I know the first verse repeats twice before the final hook, and I can't wait for that final hook. Or in Crosswords, which is just the same thing twice before that sweet, sweet "day, to-day/ day after day, so good". Or in BBCM, where the song feels like it could dissolve in thin air at any moment...

There are things I do wish had stayed. In particular, off the top of my head:
-The sample at the beginning of "No Man's Land"
-"Jabberwocky" drop
-"Faces" drop
-THX sample at the end of Selfish Gene
-"Cosplay" sample

But none of these things, to me, are so integral to any of the songs that they are "ruined" without their inclusion. If anything, I'm happy I was able to experience all the different iterations: a live show in 2014, an official recording of a show he did 2 days later, the final versions throughout 2015, an official recording of the original versions he performed in 2013...and then to compare it all? I think, with each of those versions, you could argue pros and cons at every level (Only you can fill those spaces ).

Oh yeah, and Selfish Gene is a better name for the song than Nadir. The whole song seems to be about an inflated sense of self, the belief that one thing is better than another when everything simply fills a space. It is a perfect title.

[Stanshant]

Excellent post. While we obviously feel very differently about the choices he made, it was really interesting to see the other side of those choices. Your point about the flat, jumbled sheen and how the cover reflects that perfectly, well, I'd never thought about that before or seen that aesthetic as a positive but it is consistent, and clearly deliberate. You've given me a different perspective there so I'm going to listen to it with that in mind on my lunchtime walk.

The thing that I genuinely don't get is the transition from the early raw, emotive, glitchy versions to the flat, cartoony sound they ended up with. It reminds me of old Taste into MPP Taste. How did those decisions ever come about? It's like you marinate a tuna steak with a delicate blend of soy, ginger, coriander, chilli, Thai fish sauce, shaoxing wine vinegar, sesame, touch of balsamic and a tiny splash of Worcestershire you've been working on for a couple of years, you get the skillet gently smoking, sizzle, you flip it and you've got a perfect sear, golden caramelisation and streaks of char, you watch it cook deliberately and respectfully of the slain creature, you let the flesh rest and then slice through the crisped steak to reveal a gorgeous plump ruby middle and then you squirt Cheez Wiz all over it.

[roopn]

well MPP taste is kinda different because didn't they lose the samples or break a piece of equipment or something that meant they had to rebuild the song from the ground up?

[dominoswriter92]

Stanshant wrote:

The thing that I genuinely don't get is the transition from the early raw, emotive, glitchy versions to the flat, cartoony sound they ended up with. It reminds me of old Taste into MPP Taste. How did those decisions ever come about?

I can't say why such a change was made, but it is quite different.

Since recording was finished in early-2014 and freebirds happened in November, the album had to be pretty far along by the time PB started his 2014 tour in May. So if there is a serious difference between the 2014 tour sound and the album, it might not have been intentional. And if that's the case, it makes sense why PB would want to try a different approach with PW's release.

Relevant interview, especially Qs 1&2 : http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/623-qa-so ... im-reaper/

I never heard the old Taste.

wrote:

It's like you marinate a tuna steak with a delicate blend of soy, ginger, coriander, chilli, Thai fish sauce, shaoxing wine vinegar, sesame, touch of balsamic and a tiny splash of Worcestershire you've been working on for a couple of years, you get the skillet gently smoking, sizzle, you flip it and you've got a perfect sear, golden caramelisation and streaks of char, you watch it cook deliberately and respectfully of the slain creature, you let the flesh rest and then slice through the crisped steak to reveal a gorgeous plump ruby middle and then you squirt Cheez Wiz all over it.

Classic.

[jfw7]

dominoswriter92 wrote:

The final versions are definitely much different, but to me it's a good different.

this is a good point (although like stan i prefer the demos). i think the sonic homogeneity is reinforced by the strongly consistent song structures—i keep meaning to take notes and confirm this but i feel like most of the tracks follow the same rules for phrasing, prosody, etc etc

the goldilox zone is kinda tough to nail down though. there are plenty of producers working right now who deal more directly with either flatness or jumbledness and the sound is immediately distinctive—how successful is GR in that regard?

[Strange_Clams]

zdb version of bros > album version of bros

[roopn]

Now THAT'S what I call contrarian

[Tropic]

ClangeStrams wrote:

zdb version of bros > album version of bros

Yes probably

[Lacrimosa]

Merriweather is one of their best albums (together with Feels & SJ)
and the production is f************** great.


and as roopn said, GG is the worst song on PW .

[Tropic]

Virtually all of their studio transitions are completely overrated. They're masterful at it live of course

[roopn]

Tropic of Cans wrote:

Virtually all of their studio transitions are completely overrated. They're masterful at it live of course

which studio ones specifically?

[partario]

Tropic of Cans wrote:

Virtually all of their studio transitions are completely overrated. They're masterful at it live of course

I'm going to assume you are excluding Queen in My Pictures > Doggy.