The evolution of AC's recorded output


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Stanshant


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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:08 am

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I've concluded that these days, I prefer their live sound to the studio recordings. The good but ultimately underwhelming Mr. Noah EP has confirmed this for me. It's like they've forgotten about the yin in their music.

From listening to much of their back catalogue over the past week, I've been astounded at how little space there is in their recordings these days compared to everything up to and including Water Curses. Even alongside MPP, ETSH and Mr. Noah are simply fatiguing. Even something as dense and chaotic as Infant Dressing Table manages to retain a sense of space around the instruments. Since I've mentioned WC, I think that is basically the last time they got it right on record. The title track is incredibly dense, lots of rhythms and textures and one-off noises among a very busy melody which only gets busier as the reedy synth comes into the song. And yet, you can pick out every single element!

Compare this to something as compositionally straightforward as You Can Count On Me and it's just a bit sad how flat the dynamics are. Now, I do kind of see how that works on Tomboy, it's a pretty impressionistic and solemn affair all round, but what's the point in stripping the composition down to a few elements if you then overcompensate by slapping a shitload of FX on each of those elements?! It's like doing a pointilist painting and then spraying it with water. The album completely loses the direct emotional connection of the live performance. Something like the ATP 09 Surfer's Hymn is streets ahead of what it became, all trebly rhythmic 'texture' destroying the space between the vocal melody notes.

I feel that this is exactly what happened with Faces In The Crowd, as well. Live, allowed to breathe, it became my favourite of the songs and while it was great to hear the vocals in better quality on record, I quickly felt that something fundamental had been lost. Again, it comes down to breathing space. I should say, however, that the tracks Mr. Noah and Robert Frost are both significantly 'better' (i.e. to my taste) and give me plenty of hope for the album. I've just absolutely no idea why Noah decided that FITC needed the generic AC fluttering rhythmic noise underneath the beat. I think it's a bad decision, frankly.

I don't point the finger at Sonic Boom at all and I massively appreciate his input on here. Nor do I think Ben Allen is at fault for CHz. It's clearly a route the band has decided to take, and it seems to be so across their solo releases, too. A Sender briefly made me feel that the flame was rekindled but even there, after a few listens, the notion of stripped-down elements of guitar, drums and vocals was clearly absurd. The notion of hearing any element against a black or dark background is unfathomable for the most part, across the whole LP.

I really do wish I didn't feel this way and I've been trying hard to listen to these things for what they are, without preconception (as much as is possible) but the differences between their pre- and post-MPP output is just objectively remarkable. You can pick pretty much any recording and feel the difference. Even on Feels where you have a near-constant drone of guitar or cello on many tracks, the melodies and words and rhythms leap out at you.

Sorry to bring up a moany and very subjective topic at an exciting time but I'm just trying to get my head around this because I realised that this is the fifth or sixth record in a row which has disappointed me, and all for the same reason. I've loved the songs and found the recording problematic and claustrophobic, and I wonder if they'll ever move on from this approach.
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New Zealand


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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:32 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post Posted:

maybe give this thread a bump, I think your post might fit in there nicely:

http://www.collectedanimals.org/viewtop ... =28&t=2167


I dunno if that thread's negative enough for what you want to say though, but we can take it in new directions I'm sure! it got derailed a bit anyway, I'll admit
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jetski
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Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:55 pm

Post Posted:

This is an impressively well-thought-out and organized post. I think you've certainly put substantial effort in to listening to these records and really giving them their due time, which is important—I can't tell you how many records I hated on initial listen, but eventually came around to.

Although I do like MPP and Tomboy, I sympathize with you about the use of space in their music, especially when it comes to C Hz. Propsect Hummer will forever hold a special place in my heart, and It's You is an example of masterful use of negative space. I also wholeheartedly agree with you that songs like Infant Dressing Table are busy, but not overcrowded. That's one of the reasons why I love HCTI—because it's pretty much the highest-quality, best-mixed recording to come out of the band's avant-garde/noise phase.

I guess if it's any solace at all, it's that this band never makes two consecutive records that sound the same, so hopefully we'll see a dramatic shift away from the C Hz sound. And I think that PBvsGR will have its fair share of space on songs like Tropic of Cancer and Selfish Gene/Nadir.
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Stanshant


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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:08 am

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Thanks, Vic. As I say, two of the four Mr Noah tracks hit the spot really nice for me, I'm just gutted that my favourite song of the whole set has been given the now-familiar treatment.

I'm not actually burned out on them and I regularly still listen. I just feel there's a pretty clear dividing line where they've changed the way they present their recordings; this has been largely to the detriment of the fantastic songs, in my opinion.

From two of the most ecstatic and beautiful songs I've ever heard in my life, My Girls and Brother Sport became pretty diluted indie pop match.com advert jams. I don't think I'll ever quite get over that. And yet, on the CHz tour they were emphatically better and more alive than ever, the highlights of the set.
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archie


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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:12 am

Post Posted:

i def feel this on the mr noah ep and a lotta moments on etsh
imagine if a sender was actually just guitar keyboard drums vocals
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jetski
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Post Posted:

I wish more people would approach their dislike of certain music or artists with the calm, level-headed approach that Stan has. It's one thing to say to an artist, "I think your music is shit." It's another thing to say, "I've tried listening to your music, and I respectfully disagree with the direction you're heading in."

I do wish that in Faces in the Crowd, the drums periodically dropped out like in live versions. That was a nice touch. I still enjoy the song and especially the EP as a whole, though.
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northernchild


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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:28 am
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Post Posted:

Yep, I agree with everything Stanshant's said. I am hopeful for a more acoustic album that I believe avey mentioned within the past few years. I'm still looking forward to pb's album, but maybe just as much to the HQ boot.
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foxtrot
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Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:39 am

Post Posted:

i definitely understand your point of view and respect it, though i personally don't see it as a bad thing. in a lot of recent cases, this busy production has enhanced the music for me.

i agree that CHZ was occasionally overcrowded and that the heavy handed production ended up detracting a little from the overall impact of the record.

however, i think MPP is beautifully executed. it is rich and detailed but still so clean and crisp.
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El Camino


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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:06 am
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Post Posted:

I tend to agree that their best stuff was all recorded before '08, I don't really think MPP is one of their best albums and their stuff released this decade isn't as exciting as their earlier music in my opinion.
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popadam


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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:09 pm
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Post Posted:

i couldn't have said it better myself. this has been something that has been really bothering me lately with their releases. i personally dont find mpp is mixed badly. i think the vocals are super clear, the bass is nice and every track has its place in the mix, it sounds great. but chz and etsh are full of effects and mixing choices that i dont like. tons of swirls and sound effects that just distract from the music and vocal effects that take the punch out of their voices. BURRITO. tomboy was just soaked in reverb and sounded kind of washed over. this new ep to me sounds good but everything just isnt clear enough, it needs its own place and breathing room in the mix. i still LOVE all these releases but i just wish things could sound as clear as feels or strawberry jam. these records were busy, but it never seemed to detract from the songs. i think this new album will sound better than the ep. i really hope the beats bang and the vocals soar.
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Fovrodi
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:48 pm
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Post Posted:

Hashman wrote:
maybe give this thread a bump, I think your post might fit in there nicely:

http://www.collectedanimals.org/viewtop ... =28&t=2167


I dunno if that thread's negative enough for what you want to say though, but we can take it in new directions I'm sure! it got derailed a bit anyway, I'll admit

That threads locked. I know bc I tried to quote Taps post saying you guys are melodramatic.
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New Zealand


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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:32 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post Posted:

that was the joke
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lucasmoreira


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Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:21 pm

Post Posted:

Stanshant wrote:
I feel that this is exactly what happened with Faces In The Crowd, as well. Live, allowed to breathe, it became my favourite of the songs and while it was great to hear the vocals in better quality on record, I quickly felt that something fundamental had been lost.

i see a lot of people talking about this thing about breathe, but thats not something that we think about because we are familiar with the live recordings / live envirioment?
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clayton



Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:36 am

Post Posted:

I remember when I first came on the forum, there was a current thread, basically some guy leaving because he didn't feel the magic anymore. I remember getting upset because I didn't want that to be me. I was new to AC, and it was seriously a whole new world for me. I didn't think it was possible to burn out. Just goes to show if you listen to it enough times, you can burn out on it, no matter how good it is.

Time heals all wounds, one day you will all put on Feels, years from now, and weep. :deakweep:
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Stanshant


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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:08 am

Post Posted:

lucasmoreira wrote:
Stanshant wrote:
I feel that this is exactly what happened with Faces In The Crowd, as well. Live, allowed to breathe, it became my favourite of the songs and while it was great to hear the vocals in better quality on record, I quickly felt that something fundamental had been lost.

i see a lot of people talking about this thing about breathe, but thats not something that we think about because we are familiar with the live recordings / live envirioment?

Yes, that's certainly part of it, you're right. Simply hearing the songs 'al fresco' is going to give them more air/breathing space but I still think that they managed to capture this on their pre-MPP recordings. Despite the talk of a live sound for CHz, ETSH and PBVSGR (from what we've heard so far), they are the least 'airy' records they've released.

clayton, I'm not saying I'm over them or they do nothing for me. Even the records I'm talking about here have really excited me for a time. Their older stuff still gets me right there. I'm just trying to discuss their recording/production focus, really.
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jfw7
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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:14 am

Post Posted:

do you think there's any room for it to be a subversive act, a deliberate decision? like, i agree that the production in tomboy seems to be making some kind of statement. what could chz be saying? i would make a guess but that would require listening to it, lol
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jetski
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Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:55 pm

Post Posted:

We all know what the message is with PBvsGR....BU-RRI-TO!

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b00g


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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:33 am

Post Posted:

i agree with this so much.
i find that etsh, mpp, c hz etc all are great to listen to if i wanna have a FUN listening time where i can sing along and stuff
but all the albums before that are the kind of ones where i can sit back and enjoy just listenin. these albums i will always listen to as a whole because of the space within it allows you to be patient and listen to it all. feels and before are so emotionally raw to me and i dig that so much
i thought maybe the difference could be the fact that their vocals are becoming louder and more distinct instead of just sounding like another instrument/sound, but i think ur spot on about space and i really appreciate how uve articulated ur thoughts, stanshant
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b00g


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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:33 am

Post Posted:

lying outside in the sun with hcti is just one of the best times u can have
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jetski
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Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:55 pm

Post Posted:

^I personally love putting on HCTI when it's storming outside, but I'll have to try that
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lhtd


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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:36 pm
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Post Posted:

Really great post, Stan. It's difficult to critique the outputs of other's expressions but at the end of the day art is modality of communication. I too have have felt disaccord with the aesthetic details, and to some extent the compositions, of AC's last few releases. And in my ways of interpreting their music, these aesthetic choices don't communicate as efficiently as they could. Conversely, they're lack of communication through 'burrito aesthetics' could actually speak more directly to the heart what their trying to convey. For CHz, this is defragmentation of the self from the self, an experience that pairs well with the claustrophobic production. Tomboy exhibits a very similar angst mentality. So, while the aesthetics might be audibly displeasing, they do show signs that the band stills has the talent to convey their intentions skillfully as artfully. It also gives hope to a 'return to innocence', aesethically and compositionally speaking, of course.
Last edited by lhtd on Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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zacherywolf77



Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:07 am

Post Posted:

I think that there is potential for some good negative space in songs like Tropic of Cancer and Garage.
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roopn
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:13 pm
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Post Posted:

Victor_Borge wrote:
I wish more people would approach their dislike of certain music or artists with the calm, level-headed approach that Stan has.

Did you see him in the CHz appreciation thread? :lol:
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