[New Zealand]

I'd say it's one of the least musical parts of music but, yeah... lol. I'd probably get pretty bored of Bob Dylan if lyrics didn't exist.

[dio]

^yo words aren't not musical tho, let's get that strait. but ya maybe music is more musical than words...i'll give you that one...

but I wasn't saying to ask abt the lyrics/song titles instead of release dates...doubt sb minds either way, I just feel like it might be annoying is i was SB and ppl were asking me things I maybe didn't even know the answer to or wasn't allowed to say.... but ask aaway, it was just a suggestion, wasn't trying to sound harsh/annoying even tho im prbly always annoying.

every day at work i have found myself humming a different one of these, and today it was Other Guy...Also Jetty, cuz the way he sings it now almost seems like a new song or something, his singing is more expressive than evr and it's amazing. like it was perfect before, wtf

[nevermind]

Yeah principe real takes the cake for me when it comes to humming at work tunes. The chorus is sweet.

Diomendes you cool bro.

[New Zealand]

I mean, the meaning of words isn't musical but the sound of words is, and different lyrics have different sounds so it's a weird kind of combination

[Akaio]

It's not "lyrics are the least musical part of music" it's "lyrics are the least important part of music", which is wholly untrue 9 times out of 10

[El Camino]

what is less important though?

[Akaio]

One's not supposed to be more important than the other
That's like saying that drums are the least important instrument in a song or the chorus is the least important part of a song
The place that vocals and lyrics hold in a song are every bit as important as any other part

[dio]

it's all just one voice man. one expression..

[Stigmata89]

Akaio wrote:

It's not "lyrics are the least musical part of music" it's "lyrics are the least important part of music", which is wholly untrue 9 times out of 10

nice statistic you got there, how'd you come up with that one?

the lyrics are pretty worthless in the long run because they don't really contribute much to the musicality. you can have great lyrics but if the melodies are all off the song is utter shit. on the other hand, you can have pretty mediocre lyrics but all can be forgiven by writing great melodies (panda bear).

it's one of the least attention grabbing things in most music unless the song is specifically centered around them like all the radio pop shit, but at that point the entire song is not even worth your attention.

edit: also I wouldn't go group vocals and lyrics together. Vocals are pretty important because of the sound they contribute to the song like Hashman said, I'm talking specifically about lyrics.

[dio]

i stopped trying to make generalizations abt the importance of lyrics in music. Whereas I used to reject the importance of lyrics completely, I realized that I err'd (tho i still get annoyed when ppl are so put off by unintelligible ones..) I'm totally behind the melody first thing, and then lyrics next... but the lyrics end up playing a big part whether you know it or not imo. can't really turn off yr language centers when yr listening to music, all the time, so it adds to the texture of the song in a similar way to something like a guitar tone does... and I don't think panda's lyrics are mediocre... they're often simple and direct, but it's pretty difficult imo to write simplistic and still confessional/personal lyrics without coming off like a corny singer-songwriter. they're understated, and don't distract from the raw, non-verbal beauty of the dude's voice. a sentiment as simple as "only you can fill those spaces" goes a long way, and makes the right move for the song. mmmm yes quite nice..

[dio]

also, is wazzup/til i die prbly the same song, or is that just me?

[Akaio]

I don't think we ever reached a consensus

[El Camino]

Good lyrics are always a bonus but nowhere near as necessary as good timbre, good melody etc... So yeah there are elements of music more important than lyrics, at least to most artists. Better to have music with bad/no lyrics than bad melodies and timbres.

[Stigmata89]

Diomedes wrote:

i stopped trying to make generalizations abt the importance of lyrics in music. Whereas I used to reject the importance of lyrics completely, I realized that I err'd (tho i still get annoyed when ppl are so put off by unintelligible ones..) I'm totally behind the melody first thing, and then lyrics next... but the lyrics end up playing a big part whether you know it or not imo. can't really turn off yr language centers when yr listening to music, so it adds to the texture of the song in a similar way that a guitar tone does... and I don't think panda's lyrics are mediocre... they're often simple and direct, but it's pretty difficult imo to write simplistic and still confessional/personal lyrics without coming off like a corny singer-songwriter. they're understated, and don't distract from the raw, non-verbal beauty of the dude's voice. a sentiment as simple as "only you can fill those spaces" goes a long way, and makes the right move for the song. mmmm yes quite nice..

I see your point about the simplicity having it's charm. But mediocre is mostly taken far worse then It should be, mediocre=average which is how I've always felt about Panda Bear's lyrics, at least compared to other song writers. they have their charm, but panda bear repeats a lot of phrases that don't really have that much significance (to me).

just remember panda bear used these lyrics:

"I want you to know sticks and stones may break my bones
But words will never hurt me"

it only ends up being not cringe-worthy because the way the phrases are sung fit so perfectly with the rest of the instrumentation.

[Akaio]

What about rap music then?

[El Camino]

melody, composition and timbre are still more important. like having a good instrumental backing, good flow and texture. that's what i think.

[Stigmata89]

Akaio wrote:

What about rap music then?

Sure, there are some genres where lyrics are a bit more important: radio pop garbage, folk, rap.

But those are the exceptions to the rule.

And even still, a lot of rap rides on the coattails of a good beat. Godly production and shit lyrics can end up sounding ok, but I can't say the same for the reverse scenario.

Yeezus is a great example of this.

[Akaio]

while I feel like there's an increasing focus on production in rap music, it's still one of the few genres where the words are meant to hold weight
I'll agree flow and voice style definitely are key components, but ultimately it's a derivative of spoken word, why wouldn't the lyrics be important?
e: not all radio pop is that bad

[dio]

Stigmata89 wrote:

Diomedes wrote:

Spoiler: show

i stopped trying to make generalizations abt the importance of lyrics in music. Whereas I used to reject the importance of lyrics completely, I realized that I err'd (tho i still get annoyed when ppl are so put off by unintelligible ones..) I'm totally behind the melody first thing, and then lyrics next... but the lyrics end up playing a big part whether you know it or not imo. can't really turn off yr language centers when yr listening to music, so it adds to the texture of the song in a similar way that a guitar tone does... and I don't think panda's lyrics are mediocre... they're often simple and direct, but it's pretty difficult imo to write simplistic and still confessional/personal lyrics without coming off like a corny singer-songwriter. they're understated, and don't distract from the raw, non-verbal beauty of the dude's voice. a sentiment as simple as "only you can fill those spaces" goes a long way, and makes the right move for the song. mmmm yes quite nice..

I see your point about the simplicity having it's charm. But mediocre is mostly taken far worse then It should be, mediocre=average which is how I've always felt about Panda Bear's lyrics, at least compared to other song writers. they have their charm, but panda bear repeats a lot of phrases that don't really have that much significance (to me).

just remember panda bear used these lyrics:

"I want you to know sticks and stones may break my bones
But words will never hurt me"

it only ends up being not cringe-worthy because the way the phrases are sung fit so perfectly with the rest of the instrumentation.

well in the instance you are citing, I see that weird kind of symbiotic relationship at play that melodies and lyrics have...ya it ends up kind of hinging on the melody, but they both come out better for the sake of the other...a child-like sentiment attached to such a nice tune like that kind of undercuts the ironic effect of the use of such a phrase and yr like 'damn, he's right...that's like actually tru.' and he's just being kind of nicely sincere....

I do agree that production/melody/more obviously musical aspects might be more...central, to the success of a song....but if yr an english speaking person listening to music with english lyrics, I think those lyrics end up mattering a good bit (or i mean like, if u actually know the language being sung..). how important it is, im not sure...seems kind of fruitless to try and make a hierarchy of components in songs, because it seems to be a case-by-case thing..

[El Camino]

Well i mean with most music, lyrics are not as important as a bunch of other elements, even to the artist. There are obviously exceptions, but you could find music that elevates any musical element to become the most important, i'm just speaking generally. It's probably just a weird personal thing where even lyric-centred music takes a lot to get me to focus on the lyrics more than all the other elements.

[Stigmata89]

Akaio wrote:

while I feel like there's an increasing focus on production in rap music, it's still one of the few genres where the words are meant to hold weight
I'll agree flow and voice style definitely are key components, but ultimately it's a derivative of spoken word, why wouldn't the lyrics be important?
e: not all radio pop is that bad

there's a reason why there's an increased focus on production now a days, and that's because most rappers are starting to realize they can get by if the production is immaculate, hence why so many shit rappers (asap rocky, Kanye, schoolboy q, etc.) are looking out for top-tier producers like clams casino, friendzone, hudson, etc. i'm sure the attention on production in rap will become even more important. as the days go by.

and most radio pop is pretty terrible though,

[Akaio]

I feel like the increased success of instrumental trap music is definitely indicative of what you said, but perhaps it's just a general trend in all music nowadays where people are listening less to what's being said and more to how it sounds being said?
I like listening to the lyrics and working them out, idk ˘\ ._. /˘
Just a personal thing like Camino said

[dio]

El Camino wrote:

Well i mean with most music, lyrics are not as important as a bunch of other elements, even to the artist. There are obviously exceptions, but you could find music that elevates any musical element to become the most important, i'm just speaking generally. It's probably just a weird personal thing where even lyric-centred music takes a lot to get me to focus on the lyrics more than all the other elements.

^ya ok, i can agree with that mostly. just for the sake of example, something like the Smiths seems to approach lyrics and melodicism/production/execution with equal fervor..and both seem nearly equally "important"...tho i guess the songs are still damn beautiful even if you didn't know what Morrisey was saying... hmmm

it's sort of a conundrum, cuz music is potentially this non-verbal communication, but with pop, vocal centered stuff, it's almost like we're having our cake and eating it too. But melody is what poetry is want to do...since the beginning of poetry people were singing their poems after all (Homeric bards)

[Stigmata89]

Akaio wrote:

I feel like the increased success of instrumental trap music is definitely indicative of what you said, but perhaps it's just a general trend in all music nowadays where people are listening less to what's being said and more to how it sounds being said?
I like listening to the lyrics and working them out, idk ˘\ ._. /˘
Just a personal thing like Camino said

very true, opinion... opinions...opinions

and with that being said, the panda bear thread is completely thrashed lol.

[Akaio]

can we delete this last page?
it might scare pete

Spoiler: show

unless he wants to give his two cents on the matter?

[dio]

ya lol, this is prbly something that belongs in unpopular opinions thread or the like

[Stigmata89]

Akaio wrote:

can we delete this last page?
it might scare pete

Spoiler: show

unless he wants to give his two cents on the matter?

hahah yes, hearing pete's opinion on this would be hilarious.

[dio]

i feel like the obsessive speculation that we tend to do here is scarier than a discussion on the importance of lyrics in music..

[Akaio]

at least it's friendlier

[dio]

yo we aint fightin... contrasting opinions dont need to be hostile...we're just getting to the bottom of this...

no but yal are all wrong

[El Camino]

I don't mind threads being derailed as long as it gets back on track. Which it probably should right about now.

[Stigmata89]

Diomedes wrote:

yo we aint fightin... contrasting opinions dont need to be hostile...we're just getting to the bottom of this...

yeah sorry if I came across a bit aggressive earlier about the trivial thing, I guess the way I write might make people take it that way.

[dio]

no it's just that the internet makes everything sound simultaneously sarcastic/really pissed off sounding/not the tone you actually had in mind

what is the lp gonna open/close with?

[Akaio]

All friends here
Dio hit the nail on the head
anyways
are we thinking he'll change up the track order on the album from what's being played live like he did with Tomboy or?...

[El Camino]

Yeah there's a heap of negativity bias from online communication in comparison with other types of communication (bare text makes you assume the worst), so it happens.

[El Camino]

Shit I posted that after the thread was brought back.

I kinda hope the track sequencing is similar, because i've become attached to the live track orders. Probably dangerous to think that way.

[dio]

I guess Make Believe would be a cool opener, but I can't quite picture Principe as the closer. Just don't picture a song that seems like an obvious single-candidate going last. hopefully whatever it is, it'll be attached to the THX sample.

[Akaio]

It was kinda weird hearing the 50/50 sample blend into the really mellow organ chords that start off Make Believe, it definitely went better with Wazzup
Make Believe would work as a good intro track though, but it'd serve as more of a opening transition to Day After Day than a standalone first song I think
Also I feel like Fill Those Spaces makes a good closing track (and now I'm forgetting if he did the THX noise at the LA show, I don't think he did...)

[dio]

o for some reason I thought he'd been closing with Principe... but ya I guess it's been Spaces recently, and it works great as a closer. It almost seems too epic to go anywhere else, by the end of it ("you'll trip up again," crushes me..). And at the Brooklyn show last week he did the THX after Spaces. It's cool that he has these little parts he can move around, like the 50/50 thing.. I see Vacuum as side a close, or side b opener...similar to Alsatian or Drone

[nevermind]

Vacuum or fill those spaces would make a good closer. Or even till i die... If it makes it. Im so used to cant come back as a centerpiece.