[roopn]

I've been thinking about AC's music and how the majority of it feels like it carries very little evidence of the time in which it was recorded.

In fact it might be easier to list records that do sound like the era in which they were made. To that my picks would be: PBVSGR (2015) and Painting With (2016, maybe still too recent to say for sure).
Possibly Tomboy, as it carries the huge reverb sound that was popular in indie music at the time, but I think it pushes so far in that direction that it becomes its own thing again.
The Danse/Hollinn era I would guess sounds indicative of the new york noise scene, but we're so far removed from that now I would think it's a unique experience for the vast majority of listeners.
Then of course some things are the sound of an era in retrospect, by virtue of how influential they were - Person Pitch and MPP are the easy choices here.

What are your thoughts? Does AC feel timeless to you? What releases don't feel timeless? Is timelessness even measurable? Is it important?

[Cooper]

Yes, this is one of the reasons they’re my favorite band. Listening to them isn’t like I’m listening to a genre or an era, the creativity always feels present

[scrambledgreggs]

I would say Sung Tongs kind of fits in with that "freak folk" scene that emerged around that time, though of course they pushed it further than anyone else did and made something that still sounds unique in comparison

PW was also of its time because it was kinda like AC's take on hyperpop

but yeah mostly the only reason any of the other stuff would feel dated is because of all the imitators that formed a scene around AC's sound after the fact

[dansemanatee]

when time skiffs came out this dude i used to be friends with said he liked it but thought it sounded like a lot of generic contemporary modern psych. came as no surprise that he was actually predatory as fuck.

[Cooper]

What the hell is contemporary psych

[hypo's]

Cooper wrote:

What the hell is contemporary psych

contemporary psychedelic

[Cooper]

I know I just don’t know what bands qualify haha

[ingenue]

I diasagree—every single AC release feels completely removed from artifice and trendiness. Despite their interest in “placing” each record by intentionally recording it in a particular place, they have nothing like a Northwest sound ( see Modest Mouse, Built to Spill, Sleater Kinney, The Decemberists) or a New York sound (See Interpol, The Walkmen, The Yeah Yeah Yeahs) or a Chicago sound (see Joan of Arc, The Sea and Cake, Califone). They’re amoebas.

[rohcti]

^True

I think Painting With is a good example of this, it just feels so removed from anything I can think of in terms of structure and intent. Like they're still pop songs or whatever but... as much as I'm not huge into PW it feels removed more from something like Time Skiffs, for example, and it feels like they were reaching for something really futuristic lyrically and sonically

[Tropic]

Playing Lying in the Grass loud for anyone born before the 20th century would just about kill them stone dead

[wilandhugs]

Yeah even tho PW might in some spiritual way feel like AC's take on hyperpop, nothing about is hyperpop and it does predate Hyperpop for the most part so... I always felt it sounded like absolutely nothing else and still feel that way after all hyperpop trend. After Dance/Hollin I think it's pretty clear that AC stopped looking at the mainstream for immediate influence

[scrambledgreggs]

I didn't mean to imply that PW sounds like other hyperpop at all, just that it takes the same ethos of early hyperpop (especially PC music) and applies it to AC's sound instead - maximalist, exaggerating/leaning into artifice and sounds that some might find annoying, tightly wound pop structures, etc.

[dio]

wilandhugs wrote:

Yeah even tho PW might in some spiritual way feel like AC's take on hyperpop, nothing about is hyperpop and it does predate Hyperpop for the most part so...

I wouldn't say predates^ hyperpop too much, '15 feels like the time hyperpop was newly burgeoning cuz of PC crew.

Also only commenting cuz the hyperpop comparison is interesting.. ive heard it before and it both does and doesnt make sense. Doesn't sound like theyre using software much at all for most part if OP-1 doesn't count as that for one thing, but it IS similar insofar as it has that quality of like "oh you didn't think we'd try and sound THAT slick and poppy did you?" And has the exagerrated energy of hyperpop too, so like i do get that.

Anyway, I think SJ and MPP are super timeless. MPP is such a phantasmagorically rich experience its kind of always outside of time while also sounding like the pop and radio hits of yesteryear all at once.

Feels is almsot timeless but it kiiiiind of makes me think of white dudes wearing flannel in '06/07 in a not incredible way.

ST and Spirit are forever, but also Spirit is clearly only the 90s

[scrambledgreggs]

also remember AC had GFOTY open for them on the early PW shows, so they were definitely aware of that scene and a potential link to it going into it

[scrambledgreggs]

ingenue wrote:

I diasagree—every single AC release feels completely removed from artifice and trendiness. Despite their interest in “placing” each record by intentionally recording it in a particular place, they have nothing like a Northwest sound ( see Modest Mouse, Built to Spill, Sleater Kinney, The Decemberists) or a New York sound (See Interpol, The Walkmen, The Yeah Yeah Yeahs) or a Chicago sound (see Joan of Arc, The Sea and Cake, Califone). They’re amoebas.

you could say they have a Brooklyn sound (Black Dice, GGD, Dirty Projectors, Liars) but also they were the ones most influential in defining that so maybe it's moot

[wilandhugs]

dio wrote:

wilandhugs wrote:

Yeah even tho PW might in some spiritual way feel like AC's take on hyperpop, nothing about is hyperpop and it does predate Hyperpop for the most part so...

I wouldn't say predates^ hyperpop too much, '15 feels like the time hyperpop was newly burgeoning cuz of PC crew.

Also only commenting cuz the hyperpop comparison is interesting.. ive heard it before and it both does and doesnt make sense. Doesn't sound like theyre using software much at all for most part if OP-1 doesn't count as that for one thing, but it IS similar insofar as it has that quality of like "oh you didn't think we'd try and sound THAT slick and poppy did you?" And has the exagerrated energy of hyperpop too, so like i do get that.

Yeah the similarity is more along the second part of what you're saying, because at that point PC music to me wasn't as much about the "in your face" aspect, but more just the certain production techniques, which were not at all similar to PW, what with the use of all the physical sequencers. I'm not too well versed on the history but I don't recall it getting to be that big even in the indiesphere until a bit after PW, but I certainly could be wrong on that.
I think the band's own comparison to The Ramones is more effective than any comparison to hyper pop. If I had to compare it to anything, it was like the band's take on more power pop, and the hocketing really pushes it into that direction for me-- and that's still a light analogy, given we are talking ab Animal Collective.
Funny you think of flannels and stuff with Feels. I agree but I think that's starting to emerge as a bit of a timeless look to me, you could get away with that outfit for, like, ever, and in any season lol.

[dio]

but like specific flannel patterns that i think are ugly, like a putrid yellow and pale green or purple or something? The kind of shirts avey wore before he started wearing tank tops and bucket hats? Sensitive white folk bro stuff (i have no idea what im talking about).

I have a weird relationship with feels..

[ingenue]

dio wrote:

but like specific flannel patterns that i think are ugly, like a putrid yellow and pale green or purple or something? The kind of shirts avey wore before he started wearing tank tops and bucket hats? Sensitive white folk bro stuff (i have no idea what im talking about).

I have a weird relationship with feels..

Not weird, dio. Davey was wearing funny flannels and had curly curls in those days. Feels feels earthy and fruity. Fruit leather. Hairy armpits. Canola. Basalt. Wood. I know it was recorded in Seattle, but I’ve lived most of my life there and on the other side of the state, and Feels has little resembling a Northwest sound. Phil Elvrum is Northwest. Calvin Johnson is Northwest. AC is placeless. Every artist imitates. But AC just seems to have transcended influence. Timeless? Okay. Pike Place Market is timeless—it’s been around for over a century, but it’s 100% Seattle. AC is placeless, which is, to me, more impressive. I’m a few g&ts deep and I’m a nobody. Sorry. Long live Animal Collective.

[roopn]

ingenue wrote:

dio wrote:

but like specific flannel patterns that i think are ugly, like a putrid yellow and pale green or purple or something? The kind of shirts avey wore before he started wearing tank tops and bucket hats? Sensitive white folk bro stuff (i have no idea what im talking about).

I have a weird relationship with feels..

Not weird, dio. Davey was wearing funny flannels and had curly curls in those days. Feels feels earthy and fruity. Fruit leather. Hairy armpits. Canola. Basalt. Wood. I know it was recorded in Seattle, but I’ve lived most of my life there and on the other side of the state, and Feels has little resembling a Northwest sound. Phil Elvrum is Northwest. Calvin Johnson is Northwest. AC is placeless. Every artist imitates. But AC just seems to have transcended influence. Timeless? Okay. Pike Place Market is timeless—it’s been around for over a century, but it’s 100% Seattle. AC is placeless, which is, to me, more impressive. I’m a few g&ts deep and I’m a nobody. Sorry. Long live Animal Collective.

love it ingenue. I don't have the knowledge of place that allows you to map out these artists. "placelessness" is a fascinating idea
I comment on time because it's clearer for me at least to view broad periods of time and consider the trends and technological developments in music making


On PW and hyperpop- I agree it doesn't sound like the genre but it certainly makes sense that the two things were born from the same environment.
The OP-1 is what made me pick pw as one that sounds like the era, I just find that synth so recognisable. It was still pretty new at the time and it's so prominent in every song. It's reappeared on Reset though and I wouldn't have noticed it without the video for danger, so perhaps I should reassess its use on pw. it appears to be sticking around longer term than I expected

[jfw7]

i'm kinda talking out my ass here because i'm not a Gamer, but i was watching a streamer talk about how (classic, Miyamoto) Nintendo didn't really make true sequels to many of their top properties. there are exceptions, but there's no "SMB3 2", no "SMW 2", no "SM64 2", zelda followups have different mechanics even where the stories continue.

idk, does that contribute to why these games feel "timeless" to so many players? it makes me think of the article where rusty santos (i think?) talks about how they could have just churned out a brilliant Sung Tongs 2 and they didn't do anything like it.

[Fovrodi]

Danny Perez: Sung Tongs is great, but come on, they could’ve done eight more Sung Tongs after that. Two dudes, acoustic guitars, some bongos. Those guys can write catchy melodies and harmonies like no motherfucker. What’d they do? Feels and Strawberry Jam.
https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2 ... ayDbawzDnE

[onn]

I disagree completely. Every album is strongly associated with contemporary acts and trends. AC is hugely original so they aren't exactly following trends or anything, but tiny hints are all that are really necessary to strongly date an album. And if you have an ear for production techniques then it REALLY dates the albums.

Also if you don't think Feels had an intentionally Seattle sound then look up where it was recorded and mixed, and who by.

[wilandhugs]

onn wrote:

I disagree completely. Every album is strongly associated with contemporary acts and trends. AC is hugely original so they aren't exactly following trends or anything, but tiny hints are all that are really necessary to strongly date an album. And if you have an ear for production techniques then it REALLY dates the albums.

Also if you don't think Feels had an intentionally Seattle sound then look up where it was recorded and mixed, and who by.

Didn't the group mix it themselves..?

[Fovrodi]

wrote:

for feels we wanted to work with scott and he has his own studio (gravelvoice), so that's how we ended up in seattle. both those studio had analog tape machines but we recorded live onto tape and then added overdubs on the computer

[roopn]

onn wrote:

[...] tiny hints are all that are really necessary to strongly date an album. And if you have an ear for production techniques then it REALLY dates the albums.

can you elaborate pls with some examples? I feel I have a pretty good ear for these things but I don't actually do any production work so there's lots I don't know

[Hash]

I feel like Spirit is the most like that for me, but I don't really know anything

dansemanatee wrote:

when time skiffs came out this dude i used to be friends with said he liked it but thought it sounded like a lot of generic contemporary modern psych. came as no surprise that he was actually predatory as fuck.

... I don't get it

roopn wrote:

onn wrote:

[...] tiny hints are all that are really necessary to strongly date an album. And if you have an ear for production techniques then it REALLY dates the albums.

can you elaborate pls with some examples? I feel I have a pretty good ear for these things but I don't actually do any production work so there's lots I don't know

In case it's relevant I remember a quote from Avey about how delay had become like "the autotune of indie rock" lol

[roopn]

Hash wrote:

I feel like Spirit is the most like that for me, but I don't really know anything

totally, Spirit definitely has a 90s sound, and I'd say Panda's self titled too. Spirit sidesteps a great deal with its experimental elements but they are both characterised by the sound of the gear they were made on. Maybe it's redundant to say that? But I do think it's easier to hear on these compared to their later, more professionally produced albums.

Hash wrote:

In case it's relevant I remember a quote from Avey about how delay had become like "the autotune of indie rock" lol

hahah he's right but I'll never disparage a nice delay. is any effect better?

[dansemanatee]

roopn wrote:

Hash wrote:

I feel like Spirit is the most like that for me, but I don't really know anything

totally, Spirit definitely has a 90s sound, and I'd say Panda's self titled too. Spirit sidesteps a great deal with its experimental elements but they are both characterised by the sound of the gear they were made on. Maybe it's redundant to say that? But I do think it's easier to hear on these compared to their later, more professionally produced albums.

Hash wrote:

In case it's relevant I remember a quote from Avey about how delay had become like "the autotune of indie rock" lol

hahah he's right but I'll never disparage a nice delay. is any effect better?

probably not. i don’t find myself using anything as much as i use delay. feel like you can get away with using it a lot and not sounding generic because it’s so universal. particularly adore the way it’s used on feels, so unique. find myself using it like that a little more than i’d like to admit. if you pair that with the tuning it’s pretty close to the live stuff and a little less close to the studio stuff but close enough.