I was just thinking about how similar their voices sound when speaking, and I don't think i've ever heard geo sing (lol) but otherwise they all have very distinct singing voices. pretty cooooool and wide eyed rules
I miss the days when they ditched their whole set once they'd released the recording of those songs. Since 2009, they've really just toured two sets into the ground. I saw them for the first time last year and really enjoyed it but they were more exciting when they were developing new songs live. That said, the best bit was the ten minute Brother Sport techno odyssey, which is semi-contradictory.
Exactly, a song doesn't need to have a strong melody or even try to be catchy to be good, there are so many other aspects of music to consider.
I think so. A strong melody certainly makes a song memorable. Songs like My Girls and Grass wouldn't have been "hits" without their great, instantly memorable melodies.
A lot of people seem to forget that a song and recording are two different things. I enjoy Wide Eyed's arrangement in the studio recording but I think the actual song is far from "good." Aside from its monotonous, repetitive melody, the lyrics come off as a forced attempt at being psychedelic. There is just something so bland about lyrics like "guiding her into dream time."
That said, I think the arrangement and production at least somewhat redeem the studio recording. I like Deakin's presence and think he is talented -- Country Report has a soaring, beautiful melody and was easily the highlight of the Keep cassette -- but I don't this song in particular is an example of that talent.
Sorry for the controversy. I tend to get worked up.
Also:
Hashmane wrote:
This is just gross. Please stop posting.
No, I won't. Some of the things I say might fly in the face of blind worship (which I am beginning to feel more and more is the purpose of music forums), but at least I justify my opinions. This is the CHz thread: why not discuss cons, as well as pros?
Last edited by Miss Amanda Jones on Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
I do agree that it is good to discuss criticism along with the constant praise in general though, even if we didn't agree with Miss Amanda Jones' posts.
I agree with a bit of what they're saying to be honest. I wouldn't call Wide Eyed particularly well-written either. But what I like about it is that its so straightforward. A lot of other stuff on CHz seems almost over-packed with ideas, so something like Wide Eyed works because its so simple and has such a constant groove.
Just to make this clear, I have absolutely nothing against someone saying they think Wide Eyed is a bad song or that it's boring or whatever. Sorry if it seemed like I was saying you should stop posting just because of that.
I meant specifically saying "I understand why they played it: to give Deakin a spotlight" as if you have some kind of special knowledge that the band themselves think it's a bad song too and the main reason or the only reason they are playing it is to humour him. just think about how condescending and presumptuous that is. And "I wish more people (besides me, briefly) [booed] during Wide Eyed." assuming that's what you meant to write. Please refrain from saying things as insulting as this. Thanks.
I understand both sides on this Wide Eyed fiasco. I personally like the song, but I can understand the criticisms some people might have. That being said I don't think that there has been an outright negativity based on the criticism, the posts I read from Amanda seemed kind of humorous as a way of dealing with the disappointment of said song. Though maybe I'm biased cuz I like the majority of people on this forum. However i do understand where El Camino and Hashmane are coming from, and this forum (and myself) can get pretty sensitive, so I would say watch how you word your criticisims, and yea Boooing at anything is pretty obnoxious unless it's Kid Rock, then I say go for it!
I feel like the only reason fans can be so critical of AC is because they love them so much, otherwise they wouldn't care either way. But yea, just wanted to say I understand both sides on this matter, and for anyone posting, don't feel you have to hold back your criticisms just because you're afraid of the backlash, just be sure to think your phrasings through so we can all have a good discussion without feeling like we're attacking each other.
Yeah todays supernatural has really grown on me, especially after seeing it live a couple of times now. Still can't believe Pulleys was my least fav at first. It's probably one of my favs at this point.
I love Today's Supernatural for the whole carnival vibe, plus it really warrants all the density of the instrumentation unlike a few of the other tracks.
I wonder whether my ears have changed. I think I'm far enough away from this album now to speak with objectivity. I'm going to do a song-by-song review of what I like and don't like. If it's boring, just skip but obviously, it will be life changing for those who stick with it.
Moonjock
I love the vocals, simple harmonies but conjures up that dusty vibe they're going for. Far too many electronic squelches ruin the dynamics of the song. The last 'ran out again' bit has no energy, despite the attempt to create some kind of climax. If it were more stripped down, it would be more effective, I suspect. Overall, could have fit on SJ. I now understand why SJ has almost no bass; all the samples and layers need space in the mix or it's just a load of mush.
Today's Supernatural
Lots of textural layering which seems much more cohesive than on Moonjock. it sounds like a junkyard but all the scrap is aligned. I love the dead/muted drum sound and triplets. Sounds feverish. Vocals sound great again. Not my favourite kind of AC song but nails the 'live' sound. Rubbish title.
Rosie Oh
Quite a jolly melody, catchy but almost devoid of emotion for me due to that goofy guitar line and the light-hearted vocal. I don't see how a dub bassline fits thematically. Some 'clever' electronic squiggles panning around which distract me from the vocals. The 'mad noises' seem not only superfluous but also smother the emotional core of the song. They are also the most generic whoosh and spring noises that any oaf could throw in. Geo must have texted these to BAIII at the last minute when he was busy researching some seaweed or something because he knew this song would bomb anyway. The best bit is JOHNNY WALKER. Rubbish title.
Applesauce
I would say that start to finish, this is one of the very best Animal Collective songs. If we were to cut Rosie Oh, this would be a good 1/2/3 opening. I guess they just had to cheer Noah up after Tomboy was released as too many singles and ran out of steam before it had been released because it wasn't Thriller, you know. Why does Applesauce have a synth bassline, though? It doesn't fit the theme of the album at all but this is a good thing, it's a rollicking good ride, almost a country vibe with its chord changes, the vocal is the best on the album, the best since For Rev Green.
Wide Eyed
Deakin has written two or three really good songs, this isn't one of them. Rubbish title. The relentless mechanical grinding of that weak synth, coupled with the already-tired drum triplets, Deakin's naturally flat tone wandering all over the stave in a vain search for melody, every single line collapsing to the floor taking about fifteen crochets on its way. deak pls. No dynamics whatsoever, the whole song is just a flat stodge of shit. In Honduras, people are executed for less.
Father Time
Good start, could be an Applesauce type thing here, light and delicately layered, thick with harmony, the verse melody is pretty good, we're going places here, even though it seems to have nothing to do with the live space rock sound this album is supposed to convey. Not a bad little bumping groove, quite MPP vocally, the 'a long time ago' refrain is pretty horrible, though, sounds like a radio jingle. WAIT WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT. This 'love it's not real' bit is absolutely vile, probably the worst section of any AC song, for me. That squelching bass from Moonjock is back for no reason and the chord changes are straight up gross, though they do fit with the goofiest ugly bits of Rosie Oh. Rubbish title.
New Town Burnout
Rubbish title. Great beat, doesn't fit the theme in the slightest. At this point, I've decided the theme only applies to the first two and last song. Triumphant melody, wonderful violin sounding synths wailing in the background, bringing harmonic shifts, and a grandiose pained atmosphere. Unnecessary squelching bass Ben Allen must have been working OT while the guys got some kip. The mother fucker. Builds wonderfully, not too much shit going on, everything in its right place. Noah's voice is almost an incantation. WOW. The first ever AC instrumental climax, the greatest piece of music they've produced since the early MPP shows, the 'oh oh oh' is incredibly emotional and that violin synth is the best musical idea Dave has had since the in The Flowers explosion. Dubby bass again, on a side note. Rubbish title. Kind of peters out after that, I feel like I'm trying to force the peak to continue.
Monkey Riches
More electronic dubby bass. More muted triplets. I'm now tired of that dead drum sound. This song has absolutely no energy because there are about nine things panned hard left and right, just squelching away. There are no dynamics, even when it breaks down you've got these incredibly loud tuneless noises attacking your ears from both sides. Why would Ben Allen mix that unchanging Fruity Loops squiggle 'riff' in exactly the same place in the stereo field, with no effects on it, with no change in volume or dynamics or anything else? Because he's Ben Allen. As the song progresses Ben realises that this means it needs more elements to make the listener experience more 'good' (his emotional response to music is binary). It doesn't help that the vocal melody/pattern is 'wibble wibble wibble waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah' again and again and again. And again. And again. Wait, this bit is good 'the make a monkey rich' screaming, I mean, oh wait a sec, no, it was clearly in need of three more layers of electronic static and more digitised cymbal crashes. A pox on your family, Ben. The lyrical theme also makes me feel dirty.
Mercury Man
Great start. Vocal melody wonderful and what sounds like a great organ/keyboard accompaniment which is now smothered under an unnecessarily busy drum pattern, some scratchy tuneless stabs, electronic bass squelches, some Rosie Oh style stoopid guitar. 'What a mess, what a mess'. The oscillating bass and the drums absolutely kill this song stone dead. No energy, just a constant pulse. I have to skip it, in fact. the second half is just awful, I can't even listen to the vocals with all the other superfluous shit. Thanks, Ben.
Pulleys
Got a neat Applesauce/start of Father Time vibe, kind of halfway between MPP and SJ. Again, doesn't fit the theme in the slightest. The lyrics are mysterious in a way this album hasn't really managed yet. I love the Nintendo keyboard lines undulating through the right speaker. This actually has some stop start momentum and some emotional response. When the groove picks up with that little click, it's a masterstroke. The lack of constant bass pulse or squelches really helps to pick out the layers. It's just a little bump like Father Time. There are some unnecessary drum triplets and water sounds from an old MPP DAT Ben probably tried to pass of as new shit he'd come up with just because water is water, basically, nobody would know. Great title.
Amanita
Rubbish title but probably fits this desert rock vibe. Round about now, I want to cut off Noah's hands. Those drums are getting right on my tits. Completely unnecessary echoey reverb effects on vocals panning around, would have been a gorgeous harmony if it hadn't been there just to make sure not a single millisecond of sound wasn't packed full of noises. Again, more idiotic spindly guitar lines winding round your head, detracting from the main melody. This isn't harmony, it's just extra stuff with the same notes. Now there is a whirring noises just panning quickly from left to right, like a mosquito. Now it's been replaced with some generic R2D2 style noises, just in case I wanted chance to realise that the central vocal melody is just a variation of Moonjock. Ok, here we go. Some kind of bumping cowboy vibe, caravans and trailers rumbling across the Old West, Dave banging on about forests, I love this bit. they should have just started with this bit, cut the rest. It's stopped now, there's a bad 'oh oh oh' section, the spiritual opposite to the NTW bit, basically the Antichrist. Presumably this bit is supposed to make me blow my load. Sorry, Ben. Rubbish title.
This is the worst produced AC album by some distance. Fuck me, I'm just listening to Tomboy and it sounds clean by comparison. The muddiest record anyone has ever released and now it really does sound like Thriller in comparison! HAHAHAHA.
I think because it's since it's been so long since the release of CHZ i'm finding myself agreeing with a lot of those points regarding the production (though i don't think i dislike it quite as much as you). It seems like a lot of my initial enjoyment came from my excitement for there being a new AC album, and now since that's died down i don't think i've given it a listen in months.
Some excellent tracks are on here but i gotta say, the vast majority of AC albums have better replay value.
I love the songs but completely agree about the production critique. The band mentioned many times that they wanted a "live band" feel....Ben did a horrible job at achieving that goal. Where are the drums?! You would think that they would be the loudest instrument. Instead they're buried beneath the chaos. CHz is more a massive sound collage in the style of Black Dice as opposed to a band playing in a room together. Nicolas Vernhes would have been perfect for what they wanted. Listen to the mixes he did for the live stuff on their youtube channel. He cranked the drums up so loud! The songs hit harder with the cymbals blasted. Ben Allen seems to have approached this record the same way he did MPP. The samples and fx all sit above the band's parts. However, MPP had programmed drums and it worked. I still enjoy Centipede Hz from start to finish but it's the first of their discography that I find myself picking apart the flaws instead of getting lost in the music. Hopefully this was a learning experience and the next album is perfect. I'd prefer they strip down their sound and make something that feels more personal and raw.
hmm never really thought about the song titles before but haha
i also know zero about music production but i see where most of that came from
yet... i still love this album... i guess big picture-wise?
Last edited by strawberrymeat on Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
there's a bad 'oh oh oh' section, the spiritual opposite to the NTW bit, basically the Antichrist
lol
i mean, i respect your opinion, but i really dont think is fair to blame Ben Allen for all the things, its not like AC didnt have any opinion on the production, im sure the album is what they wanted to make, or at least all the choices and the final sound was approved by them
i love the album, but i think they had some problems with the concept and the mixed ideas (alien band + radio sound + sounding live) and i prefer to focus on the more positive aspects
Hey stanshant, I really enjoyed listening to these songs last night while reading your thoughts on them. I agreed with a lot of what you said. However, I do tend to enjoy the hectic parts and where it is really dense. I was curious though, how were you listening to it? headphones (over-ear or in-ear), laptop speakers, or better speakers? thanks for taking the time and writing all that though. definitely interesting to see someone else's perspective.
i love the album, but i think they had some problems with the concept and the mixed ideas (alien band + radio sound + sounding live) and i prefer to focus on the more positive aspects
You've got a great attitude, lucas, always enjoy reading your balanced contributions.
SpritBear wrote:
I was curious though, how were you listening to it? headphones (over-ear or in-ear), laptop speakers, or better speakers? thanks for taking the time and writing all that though. definitely interesting to see someone else's perspective.
Thanks for that, I enjoyed giving it my full attention for a while. I was listening through some pretty decent headphones, Senn HD650s, run through Fiio E7 DAC and E9 amp. I think they're quite musical and relaxed and should work in CHz's favour. The separation is really good but they present music very cohesively. They're probably best with acoustic music but they're brilliant with stuff like Aja and RAM, which are pretty dense and layered with plenty of bass.
I don't mind the conceptual problems at all, SJ is an absolute mess in that respect but the strength of the songs blows any complaint away there. I like the dusty CHz vibe and I love the lighter sweeter moments, when they're given room to breathe. The problem for me, ultimately, is that the band and Ben simply put too much into the mix. It doesn't come over as intense or energetic, it's fatiguing and, ironically, lacking in energy.
Also, Geo's sound sculpture type stuff which I really love elsewhere just feels uninspired on this album. There are too many generic whooshes and sounds which don't complement the songs, and instead undermine through distraction because they don't blend well enough. I think it's great that they were excited by this sound and concept but knowing what to leave in and take out seems to be a problem when the band works with Ben. They got away with it with MPP because the songs were a hell of a lot stronger and the production choices were something new for AC, but it's certainly not without its own issues.
Yeah todays supernatural has really grown on me, especially after seeing it live a couple of times now. Still can't believe Pulleys was my least fav at first. It's probably one of my favs at this point.
truth about collages FT being at least just as good.
i need to hear that, maybe it'll change my opinion of the song
it's grown on me a bit but it's still by far my least favorite. i'd actually be interested in hearing an instrumental of that track, cause avey's singing is kinda what bothers me.
but i'm mostly just here to defend daily routine from silliness like
Miss Amanda Jones wrote:
Just compare it to the fifth track on MPP. It's just painful.
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