[speen]

I was daydreaming about that too lol. I wonder if rivka will be singing harmonies, i bet their voices would be nice together.

[Hellomark]

Definitely fun to think about what songs might show up on this tour. Would love to hear some full band Tomboy songs.

[foxtrot]

Total honesty time...

Many of you know me (at least a little bit) and I've been around here forever. I'm a long time head and have even occasionally been accused of being a bit of a Pollyanna. Everything AC touches is gold. Right now though, I'm feeling myself in a bit of crisis...

TS and IIN were the most 'conventional' sounding albums the collective have ever released. That said, I was deeply attached to the songs and I felt like the whole era came across as a really wholesome reflection of the band's long term connections etc. I loved both albums just like I'd loved everything before.

I've heard Defense a few times now and I'm just not connecting with it at all. I fear that Noah has gone too far down this 'conventional' path that it is just sounding a bit... bland. To be frank, it barely even sounds like him anymore. Most of the unique appeal from those original Madrid boots feels lost here and the style has transformed into some pretty straightforward 'rock'. This guy is one of the most inventive drummers of all time but this song offers nothing. Simplistic and banal drums that don't change the whole song. This guy wrote and performed the drums in the fucking PURPLE BOTTLE! And even recently songs like Magicians have really engaging drum parts. Panda's song writing is often quite simple and repetitive but has typically produced a kind of pleasing (sometimes euphoric) meditative effect that I've always loved and been 100% hooked into. I'm not getting that here either .

It's like he has shed virtually all the idiosyncrasies that made him such a unique and captivating artist. I'm worried for this album. I really don't mean to be a downer but I feel like this is the only place to get this out. CA are the only ones who might understand that feeling this way goes beyond just 'liking' or 'not liking' a song. I'm genuinely feeling down about it! Haven't really had a reaction this strong to new AC before.

As a bit of a P.S. I'm also really bummed about news of Noah's divorce. As a happily married man with children myself, one of the things that has always contributed heavily to my deep sense of connection with the band was the fact that they seemed like regular dudes, family men etc. When Dave and Kria broke up I really struggled because songs like 'Bluish' had become a massive part of my life. My wife has curls just like the ones Dave sings about in that song. When they split I felt like maybe some the songs and lyrics that meant so much to me were now hollow or void. Now I'm getting those same feelings about so much of Noah's work that has reflected on love, marriage and fatherhood.

Help me! What do I do here?!

[bubbloy_real]

foxtrot wrote:

I've heard Defense a few times now and I'm just not connecting with it at all. I fear that Noah has gone too far down this 'conventional' path that it is just sounding a bit... bland. To be frank, it barely even sounds like him anymore.

foxtrot wrote:

It's like he has shed virtually all the idiosyncrasies that made him such a unique and captivating artist. I'm worried for this album. I really don't mean to be a downer but I feel like this is the only place to get this out.

THIS IS A BASSY SWAY ABOUT CRYING 4 URSELF THAT HAS A GUITAR. PLEASE RELAX SIR.

foxtrot wrote:

When Dave and Kria broke up I really struggled because songs like 'Bluish' had become a massive part of my life. My wife has curls just like the ones Dave sings about in that song.

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT HER CURLS LOOK LIKE??? EXCUSE YOU!!!

[nothingmastered]

I've hated plenty of AC stuff in my day.

And yeah this song is corny as fuck. I love it.

The meaning and potency of those songs in the past aren't diminished by those relationships ending. The songs themselves immortalize the powerful feelings they had at that time and place, and aren't tied to those specific relationships anymore.

Hellomark wrote:

Definitely fun to think about what songs might show up on this tour. Would love to hear some full band Tomboy songs.

full band reset songs? some buoys for sure. so many possibilities!

[Sputnik Monroe]

foxtrot wrote:

Total honesty time...

Many of you know me (at least a little bit) and I've been around here forever. I'm a long time head and have even occasionally been accused of being a bit of a Pollyanna. Everything AC touches is gold. Right now though, I'm feeling myself in a bit of crisis...

TS and IIN were the most 'conventional' sounding albums the collective have ever released. That said, I was deeply attached to the songs and I felt like the whole era came across as a really wholesome reflection of the band's long term connections etc. I loved both albums just like I'd loved everything before.

I've heard Defense a few times now and I'm just not connecting with it at all. I fear that Noah has gone too far down this 'conventional' path that it is just sounding a bit... bland. To be frank, it barely even sounds like him anymore. Most of the unique appeal from those original Madrid boots feels lost here and the style has transformed into some pretty straightforward 'rock'. This guy is one of the most inventive drummers of all time but this song offers nothing. Simplistic and banal drums that don't change the whole song. This guy wrote and performed the drums in the fucking PURPLE BOTTLE! And even recently songs like Magicians have really engaging drum parts. Panda's song writing is often quite simple and repetitive but has typically produced a kind of pleasing (sometimes euphoric) meditative effect that I've always loved and been 100% hooked into. I'm not getting that here either .

It's like he has shed virtually all the idiosyncrasies that made him such a unique and captivating artist. I'm worried for this album. I really don't mean to be a downer but I feel like this is the only place to get this out. CA are the only ones who might understand that feeling this way goes beyond just 'liking' or 'not liking' a song. I'm genuinely feeling down about it! Haven't really had a reaction this strong to new AC before.

As a bit of a P.S. I'm also really bummed about news of Noah's divorce. As a happily married man with children myself, one of the things that has always contributed heavily to my deep sense of connection with the band was the fact that they seemed like regular dudes, family men etc. When Dave and Kria broke up I really struggled because songs like 'Bluish' had become a massive part of my life. My wife has curls just like the ones Dave sings about in that song. When they split I felt like maybe some the songs and lyrics that meant so much to me were now hollow or void. Now I'm getting those same feelings about so much of Noah's work that has reflected on love, marriage and fatherhood.

Help me! What do I do here?!

I think it is fine and totally natural to not always connect with an artists you loves new stuff, especially with the folks in Animal Collective as they are always exploring new sounds and dynamics and making music more for themselves than to cater to an audience. I personally love it, I think the stripped down more traditional nature of it only helps exemplify how fundementally great his song writing is, and the strength of his melodies. Yes, Noah can definitely do some more wild or adventurous drumming, but I think the point was to think more about tone, cadence, and tightness. I think it is real in the pocket. But it is alright not to like this stuff but also appreciate that he is able to still be adventurous and go in musical directions he may not be as comfortable or familiar with. But also, as Deakin said in this thread, this song is just one of many sounds on the album. This seems to be the case with just listening to Virginia Tech, which is a much more wild song with all kinds of stuff going on.

As far as being disappointed with the divorce, thats just going to be something you're going to have to separate yourself from and could indicate some unhealthy attachments between yourself and the band. A bands personal love life (or any part of their personal life) shouldn't affect you too much, plus this isn't some big controversy stuff that should hurt your image of them. I get you have some deep connects between your own personal sense of love and family with some of these songs, but just because they have gone through their own life transitions doesn't mean that the meaning of those songs is suddenly void. The feelings that went into making those songs were real and are encapsulated in time through the music itself. Things in their personal life might change, but that has no bearing on the emotional resonance of the song itself. So much time has gone by between when a lot of their music was written and now that a lot of the content, emotional realities, or headspaces the music came from may no longer be relevant to them in some way. That doesn't mean that all emotion and meaning is suddenly hollow or void.

You still have your loving family right? So why should the meaning and feeling those songs have to change for you with something that in all actuality has no personal bearing on your own life? Ask yourself that, and perhaps you can feel a little better about it all!

[foxtrot]

Thanks for the thoughtful response!

I think you're right on a lot of accounts and I really appreciate you helping me pick this apart.

I've not liked songs from other artists I love over the years. Guess it has just surprised me that it has happened with AC. I do respect that Panda is always taking his music in new directions. I guess I'll just wait and see how the whole album feels when the time comes and I get a chance to digest and appreciate all of the tracks/moods that he and Josh have created.

Re: the personal stuff, it is weird because I'm typically someone who happily (often deliberately) stays unaware of artist's personal lives. I figure I've never met them and its not my business (unless they have been clearly proven to be an odious person). Maybe I'm just sad. I'm even sure why. I'm sure it was the best thing for Noah and he seems to have moved on. Maybe I'm just a bit old school and wish people could make it work. That love could continue to flourish.

You're right - those songs still exist and the emotions they express don't have to fade or be any less relevant and potent for me and my life.

Thanks. Sorry!

[Sputnik Monroe]

bubbloy_real wrote:

foxtrot wrote:

foxtrot wrote:

When Dave and Kria broke up I really struggled because songs like 'Bluish' had become a massive part of my life. My wife has curls just like the ones Dave sings about in that song.

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT HER CURLS LOOK LIKE??? EXCUSE YOU!!!

I can only imagine what Animal Collectives version of the song "Stan" would be like...

"Dear Dave, I'm writing you to let you know I'm your biggest fan. My girl Susanne even has the same curls you sang about on Bluish. But the truth is, I think it was kinda fucked up you two got a divorce. Of course it shouldn't be any of my business, but I can't help but feel I should divorce my gal by Christmas. You see Dave, I think you and I are very much the same. I get anxious every time before taking off in a plane. I even wear bucket hats and scream like I am in pain.

Signed: your biggest fan, Stan"

*I hope you know I'm just having fun and not throwing shade at you Foxtrot!

[Sputnik Monroe]

foxtrot wrote:

Thanks for the thoughtful response!

I think you're right on a lot of accounts and I really appreciate you helping me pick this apart.

I've not liked songs from other artists I love over the years. Guess it has just surprised me that it has happened with AC. I do respect that Panda is always taking his music in new directions. I guess I'll just wait and see how the whole album feels when the time comes and I get a chance to digest and appreciate all of the tracks/moods that he and Josh have created.

Re: the personal stuff, it is weird because I'm typically someone who happily (often deliberately) stays unaware of artist's personal lives. I figure I've never met them and its not my business (unless they have been clearly proven to be an odious person). Maybe I'm just sad. I'm even sure why. I'm sure it was the best thing for Noah and he seems to have moved on. Maybe I'm just a bit old school and wish people could make it work. That love could continue to flourish.

You're right - those songs still exist and the emotions they express don't have to fade or be any less relevant and potent for me and my life.

Thanks. Sorry!

No problem! I think that even if I don't immediately vibe with the new stuff from an artist I really love, I can at least initially appreciate the fact that they made something they really liked, feel inspired by, and put a lot of time into. I usually will try to sit with the stuff for a while, setting aside whatever expectations for how I would have liked something to sound, and try to get out of my own headspace for a while and tap into whatever the music is invoking or could be the headspace of the artists. I find that this will a lot of times challenge me to try and understand the music from a place that is more separated from me and what I think I like or don't like. A lot of times I end up opening up to the music more, and things start clicking for me to a point where I end up really coming around to enjoying it a lot more than first thought.

Yeah, I think it is much better to distance yourself between yourself and an artist you loves personal life (unless you like find out they are like Nazi's or something!). Not only out of respect for their personal lives, but I think it is much better to appreciate how the art itself impacts and influences you. I get being more traditional with certain values, but you gotta rationalize at what costs in reality some of those ideal values came with. Sure, everyone wants love to flourish, I don't think those values went away. but people rationalized that sometimes for love to actually flourish, you can't just force relationships to work out. Many of us grew up in house holds where this was the case and have been traumatized by that. Sometimes love is able to flourish better in splitting up. I still have ex's I love dearly because we were able to recognize when something wasn't working and that in staying together we would have started to hate or resent each other.

[Alcohol]

foxtrot wrote:

Re: the personal stuff, it is weird because I'm typically someone who happily (often deliberately) stays unaware of artist's personal lives. I figure I've never met them and its not my business (unless they have been clearly proven to be an odious person). Maybe I'm just sad. I'm even sure why. I'm sure it was the best thing for Noah and he seems to have moved on. Maybe I'm just a bit old school and wish people could make it work. That love could continue to flourish.

Everything else aside, don’t give-up on your “old school” idea of love, of people working it out. 100% with you here.

[tdegenaro]

Foxtrot don't apologize for making a post that dared to be more insightful than "vt crunch pls"

[Marshmallowpeople]

I think it's fine and valid to not instantly or even eventually mesh with a new song from an artist you love. I felt the same way initially about prester john, and I ended up still loving time skiffs as a whole. So you might still love sinister grift.

On the other side of the coin, I just sent defense to a buddy who had fallen off the AC train after centipede hz, I don't even think he's heard their last few albums and hasn't really enjoyed the few tracks he has heard. But he loved defense so much that he's now on a tear of all the AC related music he missed out on. He also said the melody on defense reminds him of for what it's worth by Buffalo Springfield which i can kinda see.

[Alcohol]

tdegenaro wrote:

Foxtrot don't apologize for making a post that dared to be more insightful than "vt crunch pls"

Lolol spot-on.

[roopn]

I'm with ya foxtrot, the split is sad, especially I think because many of his older songs feel devotional, particularly on tomboy (which was dedicated to fern) stuff like last night at the jetty comes to mind.
It's easy to feel like that meaning is lost when the news is raw, but like sputnik said it's not really true - the old songs still carry their weight and remain beautiful in their expression of the sentiment, even when the circumstances in real life change with the passing of time.

obviously it needs to be said that it's noah's personal life, it is not our business and it's not healthy to gossip about it. we also really know virtually nothing of the circumstances or even the timeline.

but I will admit since figuring out they split it has led me to re-analyse a lot of noah's lyrics, really from homies onward. honestly it has only deepened my respect for how he writes, he is able to express very complex things with amazing efficiency, without forcing your attention to the song's subject matter. to me his writing to me is simultaneously cryptic and candid, if that makes sense.

also I have a feeling this is going to be hard not to discuss when the album comes out, because surely a lot of the songs are going to be about relationships old and new

[roopn]

Alcohol wrote:

tdegenaro wrote:

Foxtrot don't apologize for making a post that dared to be more insightful than "vt crunch pls"

Lolol spot-on.

absolutely

[jfw7]

foxtrot i also felt those same confused ways. i know it's like a really lame way to connect to music but using some of those songs to process things about my own complicated feelings sorta results in feeling like i was being dishonest with myself or my partner when i learned that their relationship had changed. there's obviously a parasocial side of this but it's also hard to find art that speaks to me as a boring married dad sometimes — this sounds sarcastic but is true.

i do like the song though, so i disagree with that part of your post.

[foxtrot]

spot on!

Sounds slightly lame but so true… It’s genuinely rare to find someone whose art addresses that stuff. I’m just a regular, insignificant dude who lives a contented life in the suburbs, loves his wife and kids and does his own little thing. Panda/AC have often provided a rare kind of art that speaks to that.

I love the boring married dad side of his music and that aspect maybe feels a little compromised now. Maybe that’s ultimately what I’m feeling.

Agree on the whole gossip/parasocial front - I don’t really want to engage in conversation about Noah’s personal life. Let the dude live.


Roopn - interested to hear your thoughts on lyrics. Totally agree that he is a master of that ‘cryptic efficiency’ you speak of!


Thanks everyone for the kind words, honest discussion/responses and general awesomeness.

[yibbleygoo]

There are definitely some AC tracks I've not connected with immediately. Sometimes I never "get it" and sometimes it just takes a really long time. Actually for the better part of a decade, Bluish stuck out to me as kinda boring and out of place on MPP. But after hearing it live over the years, I appreciate it more; it's not a track I'll play individually but I appreciate its presence on MPP.

ANyway, I am happy to say I am REALLY fuckin' digging Defense. Feels like an anthem for something. Can't wait to hear how it fits with the rest of the album

[pox]

i think this track does showcase noah's idiosyncrasies. to use your example foxtrot, the drumming staying defiantly on the grid throughout with no fills or flourishes. i think that in itself is a recognizable panda bear idiosyncrasy for the latter part of his career. the skiffs era does have more dynamic drum parts compared to this, but on songs like gem, walker, and broke zodiac, his drums never deviate from a simple rhythm. no hint of the manic energy bursting the seams on a song like purple bottle. on the madrid bootleg it's even more stark, with just that barebones drum machine setup and next to no complexity or variation in the beats. defense makes it clear he's translating that as closely as possible with a live drum kit on sinister grift.

this all feels like a continuation of a journey he started in earnest with buoys, of stripping as much as possible from his songs to arrive at a perfectly smooth jewel. he's focused on crystal clear production with big upfront vocals and plenty of open space for sound to ring out. he has to shed some of the wilder qualities of his older work to reach that goal, he can't fill the soundscape with reverb or weird textures, but he's been on this track for a while and i'm not thrown by it at this point. sinister grift potentially combines the discipline of modern panda bear with the analogue warmth of pre-2010s panda/ac, which has me pretty excited.

i spent one day feeling ambivalent about defense and now i love it unreservedly. i think it sounds quite faithful to the vibe of the madrid boot, and the melody just needed a few listens to click for some reason. honestly i gotta put it away for a while before i ruin it.

[Dallou]

Can someone with apple thingy record the interview ? thanky ou

[atthetopsoftrees]

I was picturing Noah playing guitar on the upcoming tour, but after seeing the band line up (Maria Reis and Tim Koh!?!) it looks like he might be behind the drums?

I also cannot get over the fact that he collaborated with Cindy Lee, Diamond Jubilee is the best album I have listened to since Person Pitch and a top 3 all time favorite for me, an absolute masterpiece… the fact that they worked together on “Defense” just blows my mind!

[willie dustice]

Has anyone posted VT anywhere? Still dying to hear it

[tdegenaro]

atthetopsoftrees wrote:

, Diamond Jubilee is the best album I have listened to since Person Pitch and a top 3 all time favorite for me, an absolute masterpiece… the fact that they worked together on “Defense” just blows my mind!

i hate to sound like a no attention span zoomer but could you hit me with like a 15-track best of, i really like the style of the album but find its length to be impenetrable

[Cussing Bum]

tdegenaro wrote:

atthetopsoftrees wrote:

, Diamond Jubilee is the best album I have listened to since Person Pitch and a top 3 all time favorite for me, an absolute masterpiece… the fact that they worked together on “Defense” just blows my mind!

i hate to sound like a no attention span zoomer but could you hit me with like a 15-track best of, i really like the style of the album but find its length to be impenetrable

Just jam "dracula" a few times, then when you're chilling put the whole thing on in the background and let it draw you in. It's incredible honestly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URewU5ll7VY

[LeadHat]

just do one disc at a time, disc one for the morning, disc two for the evening !

[tdegenaro]

I still want a playlist but in an effort to not be stubborn i will try these two approaches

[atthetopsoftrees]

tdegenaro wrote:

atthetopsoftrees wrote:

, Diamond Jubilee is the best album I have listened to since Person Pitch and a top 3 all time favorite for me, an absolute masterpiece… the fact that they worked together on “Defense” just blows my mind!

i hate to sound like a no attention span zoomer but could you hit me with like a 15-track best of, i really like the style of the album but find its length to be impenetrable

LOL no problem at all! I think my favorite stretch of the album is the last 9 tracks (from “Golden Microphone” all the way through “24_7 Heaven”) with “If You Hear Me Crying” being my favorite on the album.

But other highlights for me besides that stretch are: “All I Want Is You”, “Always Dreaming”, “Wild One”, “Flesh and Blood”, “Kingdom Come”, and “Stone Faces”.

It’s a weird suggestion to say “listen to the end first”, but maybe start with those last 9 tracks and then revisit the others.

Other Cindy Lee favorites not on Diamond Jubilee: “I Don’t Want to Fall In Love Again” and side B of Model Express.

[d-arthur]

tdegenaro wrote:

I still want a playlist but in an effort to not be stubborn i will try these two approaches

Try these from Diamond Jubilee (all streaming here https://castexotic.com/realistikstudios/)

Diamond Jubilee (you might recognize pat's guitar style from Defense)
All I Want Is You
Kingdome Come (SOTY imo)
Demon Bitch (very late 60s / VU)
Realistik Heaven (pat's instrumental songs are always out of this world)
Golden Microphone
Darlking Of The Diskoteque (again, gorgeous instrumental, crazy guitar part)

And then these from older albums:

Heavy metal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zUavOJ23Uk
I don't want to fall in love again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-0jaie9B5E
Message from the aching sky https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T3bYl5NmvE
Holding the devil's hand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e80Qla-XF0U
24/7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k0G7omxY1o

[preakness]

tdegenaro wrote:

atthetopsoftrees wrote:

, Diamond Jubilee is the best album I have listened to since Person Pitch and a top 3 all time favorite for me, an absolute masterpiece… the fact that they worked together on “Defense” just blows my mind!

i hate to sound like a no attention span zoomer but could you hit me with like a 15-track best of, i really like the style of the album but find its length to be impenetrable

Just keep trying. Listen as long as you are able, and pick up where you left off the next time you listen. The entire album is great. There really isnt a single song I would remove

[preakness]

To all of the VT beggers - picking up a copy around 11 am and will have a HQ recording this afternoon

[lhtd]

We love preakness

[preakness]

<3 Preakness loves all of the collected animals <3

[Cussing Bum]

preakness wrote:

To all of the VT beggers - picking up a copy around 11 am and will have a HQ recording this afternoon

Can you get your copy, put on a fake mustache and go back in to get another? I'll pay for the fake mustache and shipping

[preakness]

Cussing Bum wrote:

preakness wrote:

To all of the VT beggers - picking up a copy around 11 am and will have a HQ recording this afternoon

Can you get your copy, put on a fake mustache and go back in to get another? I'll pay for the fake mustache and shipping

PM me. I ordered one in the mail that I wasnt sure would go through. I will happily send it out to someone who is unable to pick one up once I receive it.

[Alex Kintner]

Sonic boom in toronto has copies online, if anyone is interested

[atthetopsoftrees]

preakness wrote:

tdegenaro wrote:

atthetopsoftrees wrote:

, Diamond Jubilee is the best album I have listened to since Person Pitch and a top 3 all time favorite for me, an absolute masterpiece… the fact that they worked together on “Defense” just blows my mind!

i hate to sound like a no attention span zoomer but could you hit me with like a 15-track best of, i really like the style of the album but find its length to be impenetrable

Just keep trying. Listen as long as you are able, and pick up where you left off the next time you listen. The entire album is great. There really isnt a single song I would remove

I totally agree with this approach! I concur, I would not cut a single track from Diamond Jubilee. It’s a flawless album from start to finish!

Also, thank you in advance preakness for offering to do a HQ rip of VT!

[annalivia]

Act of Tenderness is being severely under-represented in these Cindy Lee recs:
Power and Possession
The Last Train’s Come and Gone
Wandering and Solitude

As others have stated, it’s practically sacrilegious but if you must have a DJ playlist, I’d go:

ALL I WANT IS YOU
DALLAS
FLESH AND BLOOD
KINGDOM COME
DEMON BITCH
DRACULA
LOCKSTEPP
GOVERNMENT CHEQUE
GOLDEN MICROPHONE
IF YOU HEAR ME CRYING
DARLING OF THE DISKOTEQUE
DON’T TELL ME I’M WRONG
WHAT’S IT GOING TO TAKE
CRIME OF PASSION
24/7 HEAVEN

[atthetopsoftrees]

annalivia wrote:

Act of Tenderness is being severely under-represented in these Cindy Lee recs:
Power and Possession
The Last Train’s Come and Gone
Wandering and Solitude

I haven’t spent much time with Act of Tenderness, so I appreciate these recs! Thank you!!!

[annalivia]

atthetopsoftrees wrote:

annalivia wrote:

Act of Tenderness is being severely under-represented in these Cindy Lee recs:
Power and Possession
The Last Train’s Come and Gone
Wandering and Solitude

I haven’t spent much time with Act of Tenderness, so I appreciate these recs! Thank you!!!

Absolutely! Power and Possession was the first CL song I ever heard and I remember being completely transfixed by it and listening to it on repeat like 10 times in a row. Highly recommend all of Act of Tenderness. It’s a little on the noisier end with Pat burying the beauty under the clamor, but those three tracks are gorgeous. I’m so glad that CL is getting the recognition they deserve. There are few artists that are as in command of their craft as Pat.

[preakness]

Well, bad news lol. I biked to Fire Talk Records in Greenpoint and they didnt have it yet.... Probably should have called first. Dont think I'll be able to hit a different store today, I already spent my lunch break on the earlier goose chase.

If anyone else has the means to rip it please dont be shy! I can assist/clean up the recording!