[Stanshant]

I've criticised this record more than most on here. I've occasionally ragged on Best New Allen 3.0 but over the past couple of months I've given it a few good goes and I've really enjoyed it, with some reservations.

Main point is that it is missing some really strong songs from the era. Honeycomb, Gotham and - especially - Crimson not only are smashing songs but they also feel like they belong thematically and sonically, as per the original alien rock radio live band thing. There's a kind of weird circus Americana Deadwood vibe to them, as with Moonjock, Today's Supernatural, Rosie Oh, Mercury, Pulleys, Amanita and - arguably - Applesauce. All of those songs are great and belong to a great record, something pastoral but dark, cathartic, cartwheeling, dusty.

Wide Eyed through Monkey Riches simply doesn't fit that tone at all. From a production point of view, they don't fit. From a live band point of view, they don't fit. They're more like MPP songs, mostly electronic grooves and loops. I also think that Tomboy leftover aside, they are the weakest songs in the AC oeuvre. I could say more about them but I've given a pretty comprehensive account of my feelings before. They haven't changed much. In short, these songs would have been better as a separate shit EP.

Bang in your three leftovers in their place and you're talking. Great record. Nails a vibe and a sound they haven't really covered before. Yeah, maybe it's just a Deadwood Strawberry Jam but that's banging. Who wouldn't want to listen to that?

[Stanshant]

Damn, I'm actually excited to go listen to this album, without Wide Eyed, Father Time and Monkey Riches. NTB is a loss. The middle section is arguably the highest high on the whole record but it just doesn't fit at all. Same as sticking Water Curses on SJ or something. Never intended. File alongside Preakness or Atiba. A lonely wanderer.

[roopn]

your words hurt
but I kinda get where you're coming from. Personally, wide eyed and NTB are album highlights. If I were to pick a "weaker third" of the album I'd go for the last section. by the time mercury man/pulleys/amanita comes around the album feels pretty tired to me and those are definitely the deeper cuts here (maybe father time too).

[bullseye]

Stanshant wrote:

Wide Eyed through Monkey Riches simply doesn't fit that tone at all. From a production point of view, they don't fit. From a live band point of view, they don't fit. They're more like MPP songs, mostly electronic grooves and loops.

i know it's all a matter of opinion but i can't see any of those songs on MPP.
especially monkey riches. and even though it's a loop based song it feels completely different than anything off of MPP. and also from a production point of view i can't really see why they wouldn't fit.

[Stanshant]

bullseye wrote:

Stanshant wrote:

Wide Eyed through Monkey Riches simply doesn't fit that tone at all. From a production point of view, they don't fit. From a live band point of view, they don't fit. They're more like MPP songs, mostly electronic grooves and loops.

i know it's all a matter of opinion but i can't see any of those songs on MPP.
especially monkey riches. and even though it's a loop based song it feels completely different than anything off of MPP. and also from a production point of view i can't really see why they wouldn't fit.

Completely agree. They wouldn't fit on MPP for a number of reasons, one being that they're not fit to lick its boots. My point is that from a songwriting perspective, they seem similarly structured, repetitive loops, more electronic than live band instrumentation. In short, nothing like the other stuff on CHz, nor like the stated intention.

I'm trying to be generous and come up with a decent stylistic and thematic reason to replace them with better songs. The reality is that they're bloody awful. I'd have NTB on there if it didn't fade into the colossal dog egg which is Monkey Riches.

I actually did just listen to this driving through the Lake District in Cumbria, on a little walking holiday. It was great. I could add acoustic Wide Eyed to the mix, tonally much more fitting, a dark and creeping woodsy change of pace.

[bullseye]

ok now i get it. i love CHz a whole lot but i have to agree that monkey riches is one of their worst songs.

[ImpendingPeacefish]

Stanshant wrote:

I've criticised this record more than most on here. I've occasionally ragged on Best New Allen 3.0 but over the past couple of months I've given it a few good goes and I've really enjoyed it, with some reservations.

Main point is that it is missing some really strong songs from the era. Honeycomb, Gotham and - especially - Crimson not only are smashing songs but they also feel like they belong thematically and sonically, as per the original alien rock radio live band thing. There's a kind of weird circus Americana Deadwood vibe to them, as with Moonjock, Today's Supernatural, Rosie Oh, Mercury, Pulleys, Amanita and - arguably - Applesauce. All of those songs are great and belong to a great record, something pastoral but dark, cathartic, cartwheeling, dusty.

Wide Eyed through Monkey Riches simply doesn't fit that tone at all. From a production point of view, they don't fit. From a live band point of view, they don't fit. They're more like MPP songs, mostly electronic grooves and loops. I also think that Tomboy leftover aside, they are the weakest songs in the AC oeuvre. I could say more about them but I've given a pretty comprehensive account of my feelings before. They haven't changed much. In short, these songs would have been better as a separate shit EP.

Bang in your three leftovers in their place and you're talking. Great record. Nails a vibe and a sound they haven't really covered before. Yeah, maybe it's just a Deadwood Strawberry Jam but that's banging. Who wouldn't want to listen to that?

Pretty spot on if you want to be critical. I like Wide Eyed, NTB, and Monkey Riches, but i do agree they feel a bit out of their element. Overall songs like Moonjock, Todays Supernatural, and Applesauce will be regarded as great AC songs even by those who panned this album at first. It really is a shame ppl gave this album 1 chance and hung it up for dry. Even you stan have came around to liking some of it.

Long. Live. Centipede.

[preacherben]

i think Monkey Riches works best as a live track. It's main driving force is the changing intensity of Avey's vocals which were improved on the record. the loop is still awesome tho

Today's Supernatural has to be my least fav. it's damn catchy but I feel like it was written to be a single. It exists as single in my mind. That doesn't make it a worse track, but it does take me out of the album a bit.

the four songs that were written in the studio (Applesauce, Pulleys, Moonjock, Amanita) have the most staying power. I think that since they were written after the original tracks AC probably had a better grasp of what sounds worked and what didn't. Funny enough I think I disliked these the most when it freebirded.

then you have the songs they played live on the album that came out great, Rosie Oh, Father Time (fight me stan), Wide Eyed, NTB. Wide Eyed in particular is way better on the album. It has an immense sound. I think Deak's vocals maybe too high in the mix cause the strength of the song is with it's beat and instrumentation, not the vocal melody

last you have the non-album cuts which we all agree turned out pretty great.

what does this tell me? 2 years after this album, I think I've finally found an opinion that suits me: This is a good album, but i think the song selection really hurts it. my perfect CHz:
1. Moonjock
2. Honeycomb
3. Rosie Oh
4. Applesauce
5. Wide Eyed
6. Amanita
7. Father Time
8. Gotham
9. New Town Burnout
10. Pulleys
11. Crimson

[ImpendingPeacefish]

1 question about that track list, why is Amanita track 4? I think it has that closer feel and what not, not sure why its so far up on your tracklist. Besides that, i think you make a good point (TS is a great track, but sometimes it feels like it should be where honeycomb is and on a single).

[Stanshant]

I completely agree about Today's Supernatural, in fact. The hook is quite jarring/gimmicky. On the other hand, the bridge section which goes through about four different winding melodies is a top three bit of the album. As it fits the aesthetic, I'd say it must stay but it's very close to being the lead track on the Shit EP.

I could almost get on board with your tracklisting because Mercury in its album form is not the loss that the live version would have been. The incessant triplets and cardboard box drum sounds are pretty much done by this point of the album. I will agree to let it drift onto the Shorty McShitstain EP. Splitting up Wide Eyed and Father Time does make them both slightly more palatable. I'll try to listen to Wide Eyed again and ignore Deak's vocal. It did sound enormous when I saw them live but it wasn't really a song, just a heavy loop. When I think of it, in any form, I just think of this loud plodding squelch noise going on and on and Deakin singing like a raga. Now that could actually be awesome, just turns out it ain't.

Let's trim off the Coldplay oh oh ohs from the end of Amanita and leave the forest bit as the triumphant coda. Much better. I don't see it slipping in here really but it breaks up the mid tempo plod. I now think that the Greaper could have done with something similar. Maybe Mr. Noah after Crosswords? Most of the album is similar tempo. I dunno.

Father Time suffers from the same fate and flaw as Today's Supernatural, for me. The hook sounds like a rejected Chicken Tonight jingle, or something. It made the initial shortlist but got no further than round three of voting. That kind of thing. I quite like its little bumping groove and the synths but it's got no business on this record. Doesn't fit. Disco Dennis EP all night.

I think we can agree on all of that.

[ImpendingPeacefish]

Stanshant wrote:

Disco Dennis EP all night.

[Cussing Bum]

I've never really been critical of the album, but I have to agree with Stanshant's assessment for the most part. I agree that Wide Eyed and Father Time don't fit the album and are two of their worst songs. I also agree NTB doesn't fit even if I love it. But Monkey Riches really fits the album to me. I'm not hearing how it doesn't.

Anyway, I think an album with the first three replaced by the b-sides sounds excellent. I'll jam it soon.

[speen]

The only one that stands out to me as a real weak spot is father time. I guess I just don't get it...?

My philosophy with chz is it's a great album, and yea, i've never been one to criticize it, but it's my least favorite AC release. but like it's still great, that doesn't mean anything. if they had only ever released chz, they would have had a solid career haha

[csw]

I have a soft spot for Centipede Hz. First AnCo album I ever purchased. I fell in love with it immediately, with different songs taking their place as my favorite, changing about every week or so. First it was Moonjock. Then Rosie Oh. Then Amanita. Then Monkey Riches. Then Pulleys. Then Applesauce. Monkey Riches ended up as my favorite for a long time, until I decided Mercury Man and New Town Burnout were too damn awesome to not be first. I'm rambling. My point is, y'all can change the tracklist however you want, but I'll likely never change it. I prefer Honeycomb and Gotham as their own mini-EP. I've been listening to CHz for long enough as it is, I can't listen to it any other way. Close-minded, I know, but I don't mess with things that are already good.

[ImpendingPeacefish]

csw wrote:

My point is, y'all can change the tracklist however you want, but I'll likely never change it. I've been listening to CHz for long enough as it is, I can't listen to it any other way.

Although I've been agreeing with other ppl's opinions on a new track list for this album, i ultimately only listen to it as it was released, much like you have. There is something special about listening to this album as i did 2 and a half years ago in my dorm room.

[preacherben]

ImpendingPeacefish wrote:

1 question about that track list, why is Amanita track 4? I think it has that closer feel and what not, not sure why its so far up on your tracklist. Besides that, i think you make a good point (TS is a great track, but sometimes it feels like it should be where honeycomb is and on a single).

mainly cause I think Crimson is the best closer. But they both feel like closers. So it's hard to have both.
makes sense why the boys ended up cutting Crimson

[preacherben]

Stanshant wrote:

I completely agree about Today's Supernatural, in fact. The hook is quite jarring/gimmicky. On the other hand, the bridge section which goes through about four different winding melodies is a top three bit of the album. As it fits the aesthetic, I'd say it must stay but it's very close to being the lead track on the Shit EP.

I could almost get on board with your tracklisting because Mercury in its album form is not the loss that the live version would have been. The incessant triplets and cardboard box drum sounds are pretty much done by this point of the album. I will agree to let it drift onto the Shorty McShitstain EP. Splitting up Wide Eyed and Father Time does make them both slightly more palatable. I'll try to listen to Wide Eyed again and ignore Deak's vocal. It did sound enormous when I saw them live but it wasn't really a song, just a heavy loop. When I think of it, in any form, I just think of this loud plodding squelch noise going on and on and Deakin singing like a raga. Now that could actually be awesome, just turns out it ain't.

Let's trim off the Coldplay oh oh ohs from the end of Amanita and leave the forest bit as the triumphant coda. Much better. I don't see it slipping in here really but it breaks up the mid tempo plod. I now think that the Greaper could have done with something similar. Maybe Mr. Noah after Crosswords? Most of the album is similar tempo. I dunno.

Father Time suffers from the same fate and flaw as Today's Supernatural, for me. The hook sounds like a rejected Chicken Tonight jingle, or something. It made the initial shortlist but got no further than round three of voting. That kind of thing. I quite like its little bumping groove and the synths but it's got no business on this record. Doesn't fit. Disco Dennis EP all night.

I think we can agree on all of that.

Yeah I think an EP of all those similar Avey songs would've been great, or at least clear the way for CHz to be more rounded out and complete

[ImpendingPeacefish]

preacherben wrote:

ImpendingPeacefish wrote:

1 question about that track list, why is Amanita track 4? I think it has that closer feel and what not, not sure why its so far up on your tracklist. Besides that, i think you make a good point (TS is a great track, but sometimes it feels like it should be where honeycomb is and on a single).

mainly cause I think Crimson is the best closer. But they both feel like closers. So it's hard to have both.
makes sense why the boys ended up cutting Crimson

If my memory serves right, Crimson was the closer on the live tour in 2011. So, I can see where you are coming from, thanks!

[valar602]

I think the production of the album is criticized because all the weird GEO sounds werent mixed eloquently into the mix, they stand out more and hide a lot of the instrumentation. I think hearing Deakin's guitar more clearly would have helped as well. Avey's vox on Monkey Riches were my biggest disappointment after seeing them live twice in 2011. Avey seems to not want to scream on records anymore but the song drastically changed when it got into studio. not sure of the real reason. maybe it was to hard for avey to sing night after night on tour. I think also they should have put Crimson or Gotham into the track listing just to give some breathing room for the listener.FYI im trying to be objective here, i love CHZ.

[ImpendingPeacefish]

valar602 wrote:

im trying to be objective here, i love CHZ.

I don't know man, to me music has for me and will always be a subjective thing. It's how YOU feel about it that matters imo.

[valar602]

totally, im just looking at the music from an objective stand point. sometimes its hard for me to even engage in this type of conversation because the music is so personal to me and my own biases come into play.

its all so very different when you follow the boots and the first bad youtube clips that come out of a new AC era to the complete inception of a full realized album. by that time for the most part, you really understand the song and how it flows, and have been singing father time in your head over and over. i think we forget that here sometimes. though CHZ came out in 2012, we've known the songs since 2011 and have had more time to really analyze the structures and sounds of each song. so we really shouldnt be surprised by a lack of enthusiasm and mixed reviews that come out of any album these guys release from now on.

though id love to see them come out with an LP outa fuckin nowhere then tour it.

[CokePotCrack]

Chz is not my fave. I still like it, though, so idk. Today's Supernatural is my fave from it. AC records are basically in like a class of their own for me, with a few exceptions. I hope their next album goes back to that. PBVSGR, Down There, and Slasher Flicks are not in that class for me. Whatever, AC has a life time pass from me haha, I know they're awesome forever.

[ImpendingPeacefish]

valar602 wrote:

totally, im just looking at the music from an objective stand point. sometimes its hard for me to even engage in this time of conversation because the music is so personal to me and my own biases come into play.

its all so very different when you follow the boots and the first bad youtube clips that come out of a new AC era to the complete inception of a full realized album. by that time for the most part, you really understand the song and how it flows, and have been singing father time in your head over and over. i think we forget that here sometimes. though CHZ came out in 2012, we've known the songs since 2011 and have had more time to really analyze the structures and sounds of each song. so we really shouldnt be surprised by a lack of enthusiasm and mixed reviews that come out of any album these guys release from now on.

though id love to see them come out with an LP outa fuckin nowhere then tour it.

You really hit the nail on the head when it comes to the amount of pre-listens we had. I can remember listening to a well mixed bootleg for about 14 months and by then I knew every part of 3/4ths of the album. CHz was also my first "new" album by the band so it's the AC release I grew into.

[roopn]

What's your favourite song intro/outro on the album? Every song has one.

I personally like NTB's intro. It's kind of slowed down and slippery, feels like you've just found a new part of town on a night time walk in a country you've never been too.

[popadam]

roopn wrote:

What's your favourite song intro/outro on the album?

JEREMY WALKER

[valar602]

Fav intro is Father Time
Fav outro is NTB

[rohcti]

What's the best boot do you guys think?

[fernforested]

2012 Utrecht if you're talking about quality, but in terms of song choice and shit my favorite is this

ed: changed 2013 to 2012... can't believe it's been 3 years lol

[csw]

popadam wrote:

roopn wrote:

What's your favourite song intro/outro on the album?

JEREMY WALKER

Johnny

[Untitled]

I really really like this album. But dont you think that nostalgia and a lot of other factors play into the hate of newer albums?

[roopn]

definitely, also with new albums people (I'm guilty of this) often say "they could have done this" or "They should have changed that!" where with older albums they just accept it because they weren't there when it came out.
old - listening to what it is
new - listening to what one might have wanted it to be

[rampface]

Monkey Riches is my jam this week! Listened to this single track 4 or 5 times a day

[ImpendingPeacefish]

roopn wrote:

definitely, also with new albums people (I'm guilty of this) often say "they could have done this" or "They should have changed that!" where with older albums they just accept it because they weren't there when it came out.
old - listening to what it is
new - listening to what one might have wanted it to be

Spot on. I had a friend the other day just text me saying "holy shit, I'm re-listening to Centipede Hz and i'm euphoric as fuck rn". He ragged on the album a ton a couple of years ago, but now that he's giving it a chance he's so into it. His favorite song is Father Time though, kinda weird if you ask me, but it's cool that he gave it a chance again.

[tender]

Chz has been my go-to batch of AC jams lately 8) yeeeea

[Tropic]

Since I made the transition from shit earphones to proper headphones, the only AnCo album that has stepped up has been CHZ.

[jetski]

What headphones are you using?

I bought a pair of Grado SR-80s last year and I immediately noticed a marked improvement over iPod earbuds when listening to pretty much any AC album.

[Tropic]

Senny 650's. AnCo are one of the few artists who don't really sound too different--nicer, sure, but not a huge step up.

I think it's almost certainly something to do with the way their music is mixed. Like there aren't really clear, defined channels and a lot of sounds bleed together.

But on CHertz I noticed things I hadn't before, little touches and sounds here and there. Whole album just sounded bumped up.

That said, I haven't listened to anything up to and including Sung Tongs yet.

[jetski]

You HAVE to hear Sung Tongs on good cans! It made all the difference for me first time I heard it in HQ.

If you honestly can't tell the difference then I won't argue with you, but frankly it seems a little ridiculous to me that you say that AC are one of the only artists for whom you can't tell a difference in HQ. I personally feel the opposite way—I'd say they're one of the few artists for whom there are many details that are best observed with high quality headphones.

I actually agree with what you said about their mixing, in that it can be a bit crowded and sounds often sort of overlap. I think this is especially evident on Merriweather and C Hz due Ben Allen's input, but I also think it's an intended effect, at least to some degree. A lot of AC's music is all about creating a sort of atmosphere, and in order for that to happen I think that the sounds have to blend together a bit to create the illusion of homogeneity. Because of this, sometimes it can be hard to focus on a specific sound, although I think it's greatly aided by using nice headphones or speakers.

Anyway, just my opinion.

[stash]

Untitled wrote:

I really really like this album. But dont you think that nostalgia and a lot of other factors play into the hate of newer albums?

nostalgia? more like nosestuckupgia

[Tropic]

Tropic of Cans wrote:

Since I made the transition from shit earphones to proper headphones, the only AnCo album that has stepped up has been CHZ.

This was such a silly, knee-jerk reaction. I think I had listened to MPP, HZ, Person Pitch, and Grim Reaper at this point.

When I listened to PP and Strawberry Jam I realised a lot of my files were really shitty quality and went on a quest to download better quality rips.

Everything sounds amazing with good headphones. Months later I can now safely say that MPP was the only one that didn't seem to improve much. Probably because I'd listened to it to death already and would often play it on the speakers at home.